Balanced Amp + DAC. Best Value Combo?

[habb1]

Hi all, my SMSL M500 went down, fortunately amazon will reimburse everything back. I've started to look at my new AMP + DAC combo. I wrote down these combos below with my region prices. All of those seem to be best of the best in terms of measurements. Though, possibly some of personal experiences might say something else about these combos and it would be great if you could share some of your knowledge here.

Combo 1 = €882 total
GUSTARD DAC-X16
GUSTARD H16

Combo 2 = €900 total
SMSL SU-9
Monoprice THX AAA 887

Combo 3 = €949 total
GUSTARD DAC-X16
Monoprice THX AAA 887

Combo 4 = €971 total
SONCOZ SGD1
Monoprice THX AAA 887

Combo 5 = €1000 total
SMSL SU-9
SMSL SP400

As I understood they are all fully balanced? I have excluded SH-9, since SU-9 is balanced and SH-9 not, I thought then its not logical to buy that pair or actually its still a considerable buy? Its a nice stack at the end Topping A90+D90 or SMSL SP400 + M400 were too expensive, though the stack + performance would be sweet.
Personally I'm not too interested in Bluetooth connection, MQA or the screen. Just the performance itself for planar magnetic headphones.

Any consideration and recommendations regarding these combos? Is it just "get whatever - will be happy' or are there some sound signatures for specific listener or something else to consider? Thank you

 

[habb1]

Combo 0 = €771
SMSL SU-9
SMSL SH-9

Its a beautiful stack and great value, though the balance option is gone here. I am learning everyday here something new, although as of now I'm not sure whether this balanced connection between SU-9 and SP400 would benefit me now or possibly later.

 

[Veri]

How long are you willing to wait? Check out the latest reviews of A30 Pro and D30 Pro. Combined it will cost you less than everything else on your current list.. just not for sale, yet.

 

[RickSanchez]

I would suggest not worrying about "sound signatures". The best measuring DACs / amps will be audibly transparent. If you want a specific sound signature that's OK, but don't buy hardware with a sound signature baked in; use EQ to create whatever sound profile you want via software.

Although not fully balanced I would suggest taking a look at the Sabaj D5. SOTA DAC measurements, quality amp module, and a really nice feature set. The only potential downside is that it's slightly under-powered on the amp side, but you can compensate for that with a balanced (XLR) headphone cable depending on whether or not your headphones need the extra power.

Edit: it's also less expensive than any of the options you mentioned.

 

[Veri]

Although not fully balanced I would suggest taking a look at the Sabaj D5.

It is fully balanced no? Balanced DAC, balanced head-amp module over 4-pin XLR. Just not as powerful as an external/separate amp. It's a great value piece of kit, I just wouldn't rely on the single-ended head-amp that's included, balanced one looks a lot better from Amir's measurement.

 

[ninetylol]

How long are you willing to wait? Check out the latest reviews of A30 Pro and D30 Pro. Combined it will cost you less than everything else on your current list.. just not for sale, yet.

Will never be available it seems.

 

[RickSanchez]

It is fully balanced no? Balanced DAC, balanced head-amp module over 4-pin XLR. Just not as powerful as an external/separate amp. It's a great value piece of kit, I just wouldn't rely on the single-ended head-amp that's included, balanced one looks a lot better from Amir's measurement.

I think you are right. I thought I remember reading -- in the Sabaj D5 measurement thread -- that it was not fully balanced. But I just searched through that thread and didn't find anything like that.

 

[Veri]

Will never be available it seems.

Haha no need to be so pessimistic

 

[habb1]

How long are you willing to wait? Check out the latest reviews of A30 Pro and D30 Pro. Combined it will cost you less than everything else on your current list.. just not for sale, yet.

I'm actually dying to get something as soon as possible (possibly order over this weekend) its been almost 2 months when my system is broken. But I saw that A30 Pro looked very promising, sad that there isn't any date available yet.

I would suggest not worrying about "sound signatures". The best measuring DACs / amps will be audibly transparent. If you want a specific sound signature that's OK, but don't buy hardware with a sound signature baked in; use EQ to create whatever sound profile you want via software.

Although not fully balanced I would suggest taking a look at the Sabaj D5. SOTA DAC measurements, quality amp module, and a really nice feature set. The only potential downside is that it's slightly under-powered on the amp side, but you can compensate for that with a balanced (XLR) headphone cable depending on whether or not your headphones need the extra power.

Edit: it's also less expensive than any of the options you mentioned.

Noted regarding sound signatures.
Regarding Sabaj D5, I saw this one too and somehow I missed out that somebody sells it in EU, though I found it now. Here it costs €460 (more than SU-9), so as only DAC option it wouldn't be the best value.
But if using also as an AMP, it would bring another questions to me, is how much power is enough for headphones. Is there any difference for 70 Ohm 101 dB Planar Magnetic headphones, if amp gives 800mW or it gives 1.5W; the other thing would be I would need straight away to get a balanced headphone cable, as single ended is really low on power. I was planning to get such cable later on, as I'm lacking research on this topic.
Ech, so many options..

 

[RickSanchez]

Agreed, if you were just planning to use the Sabaj D5 as a DAC that's not a great option. There are a number of quality balanced DACs for less money.

Is there any difference for 70 Ohm 101 dB Planar Magnetic headphones, if amp gives 800mW or it gives 1.5W

Not my field of expertise so I won't try to give you an answer here. But one of the ASR members (solderdude) has some great info on this topic:

• Article: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/power-impedance-etc/
• Reference table: https://www.mediafire.com/file/dzwe1g73q6pbhnx/headphone_power_table.pdf/file

the other thing would be I would need straight away to get a balanced headphone cable, as single ended is really low on power

It depends on what headphones you have. Without EQ the SE output on the D5 may be plenty powerful enough for most listening, just not enough juice if you really want to play music loud. So you might be able to live with that for some time while you research buying a balanced headphone cable.

 

[habb1]

Thanks for the articles. I do like tiny bit of EQ.
Just found out about RME ADI-2 DAC FS. It's being sold here for €950, so it costs almost the same as Combo 2 mentioned before and it's cheaper than the other ones (taking into consideration that I would get some €50 XLR cables). This also looks like interesting option. Getting lost now

 

[Sukie]

Thanks for the articles. I do like tiny bit of EQ.
Just found out about RME ADI-2 DAC FS. It's being sold here for €950, so it costs almost the same as Combo 2 mentioned before and it's cheaper than the other ones (taking into consideration that I would get some €50 XLR cables). This also looks like interesting option. Getting lost now

The RME has a parametric equaliser. Very useful to have one built into hardware.

 

[Blank Verse]

Hi all, my SMSL M500 went down, fortunately amazon will reimburse everything back. I've started to look at my new AMP + DAC combo. I wrote down these combos below with my region prices. All of those seem to be best of the best in terms of measurements. Though, possibly some of personal experiences might say something else about these combos and it would be great if you could share some of your knowledge here.

Combo 1 = €882 total
GUSTARD DAC-X16
GUSTARD H16

Combo 2 = €900 total
SMSL SU-9
Monoprice THX AAA 887

Combo 3 = €949 total
GUSTARD DAC-X16
Monoprice THX AAA 887

Combo 4 = €971 total
SONCOZ SGD1
Monoprice THX AAA 887

Combo 5 = €1000 total
SMSL SU-9
SMSL SP400

As I understood they are all fully balanced? I have excluded SH-9, since SU-9 is balanced and SH-9 not, I thought then its not logical to buy that pair or actually its still a considerable buy? Its a nice stack at the end Topping A90+D90 or SMSL SP400 + M400 were too expensive, though the stack + performance would be sweet.
Personally I'm not too interested in Bluetooth connection, MQA or the screen. Just the performance itself for planar magnetic headphones.

Any consideration and recommendations regarding these combos? Is it just "get whatever - will be happy' or are there some sound signatures for specific listener or something else to consider? Thank you

Do you find a noticeable difference listening through headphones to a balanced vs unbalanced source?

 

[Veri]

Do you find a noticeable difference listening through headphones to a balanced vs unbalanced source?

Balanced source is just way less prone to issues, which is the main motivation to use XLR cables there. Other than that it handily boosts the voltage to the amp, which can be beneficial for power hungry headphones.. not so much for sensitive ones or IEMs.

 

[RickSanchez]

I doubt it helps given your location but the Monoprice THX 887 amp is on sale at monoprice.com for $350 US (down from $400). I checked the monoprice.eu site and that price is still €450. Just thought I'd mention it in case any of the EU distributors for Monoprice put it on sale in the near future.

 

[habb1]

I doubt it helps given your location but the Monoprice THX 887 amp is on sale at monoprice.com for $350 US (down from $400). I checked the monoprice.eu site and that price is still €450. Just thought I'd mention it in case any of the EU distributors for Monoprice put it on sale in the near future.

Thanks, I saw that as well, I've wrote them asking whether we can get a similar discount on .eu website, lets see what's the response.
I was researching a lot this weekend, watched every video and read every review on RME ADI-2. Its quite a piece of equipment. I understand that from the following list of headphones - Ananda, LCD-2C, ERA-1 & Aeon 2, only the latter wouldn't perform at its full capacity with RME as an amp. Aeon 2 was quite intriguing, I need to give a listen, to decide whether I'll get those or not. If not, then RME it is, otherwise SU-9 + Monoprice/SP400

 

[evert]

Thanks, I saw that as well, I've wrote them asking whether we can get a similar discount on .eu website, lets see what's the response.
I was researching a lot this weekend, watched every video and read every review on RME ADI-2. Its quite a piece of equipment. I understand that from the following list of headphones - Ananda, LCD-2C, ERA-1 & Aeon 2, only the latter wouldn't perform at its full capacity with RME as an amp. Aeon 2 was quite intriguing, I need to give a listen, to decide whether I'll get those or not. If not, then RME it is, otherwise SU-9 + Monoprice/SP400

I'm also looking at the Aeon 2 (Noire) and a good dac/amp. Why wouldn't the RME be good for the Aeons? Is it too low power rated, or is there some other mismatch in the pairing?

 

[enricoclaudio]

I'm also looking at the Aeon 2 (Noire) and a good dac/amp. Why wouldn't the RME be good for the Aeons? Is it too low power rated, or is there some other mismatch in the pairing?

I don't have a RME ADI-2 DAC but I do have a RME Fireface UCX II, Topping A30Pro and Topping A90, and all three drive my DCA AEON 2 Noire effortless. I also own Sennheiser HD660S and HIFIMAN Sundaras but the Noire's are the hardest to drive but not for any of my amps. I also have a Matrix Audio mini-i Pro 3 which drive the Noires at its full potential when using balanced out with enough spare headroom.