• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

BACCH4Mac Pro Edition: a report

Se7enAtx

Member
Audio Company
Joined
Feb 21, 2019
Messages
48
Likes
105
Thanks for the reply! I was not aware of how different the two software pieces were, between the SP and dsp units.
 
OP
D

Dialectic

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
1,738
Likes
3,091
Location
a fortified compound
I would like to announce on this forum that Theoretica just released BACCH-dSP 8.0 (the application at the heart of the BACCH4Mac product) which has many new features and improvements. Among the improvements that are relevant to people on this forum is the new Bass Correction feature that fully restores the phase information to the low-frequency (LF) part of the audio signal after it goes through a BACCH filter. Previous versions of BACCH-dSP relied on minimum phase filters to handle the LF part of the crossover, which caused the deep bass (below 90 Hz) through the BACCH filter to sometimes have a different level than that when the filter is bypassed. This is no longer the case with the new Bass Correction feature, which provides a bit-perfect match between the LF component of the audio going through a BACCH bin and that going through the Bypass bin.

While the Mono Correction feature (first added in v 7.0) fixed most bass issues, the new Bass Correction feature of 8.0 completely fixes bass reproduction down to the lowest frequencies.

This Bass Correction feature will also be part of the next firmware upgrade for the BACCH-SP processor, which is planned for release in May.

Regards,
Buddy @ Theoretica
I look forward to installing and testing this weekend. Will post my thoughts here.
 

Se7enAtx

Member
Audio Company
Joined
Feb 21, 2019
Messages
48
Likes
105
Slightly off topic, did you get the latest 8c update? They pushed it to me today.

When I powered down my system, it reset some of my dsp settings. Fixed now.
 

chris_rod

New Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
1
Likes
1
Hello everyone!
Greetings from the Netherlands!
I became so enthusiastic to own and listen the bacch4mac after reading your reports and positive experiences with it.
I consider myself an entry level audiophile and I love watching movies too (almost as much as listening a good album, almost ;-)) now my question to all the owners of the bacch4mac is if you ever tried watching a film (a sci-fi film maybe where the surround effects are usually more pronounced)
with the audio purified by the bacch4mac; what was your experience?
I'm right now in the dilemma of either make my living room an Atmos home theater (that would mean buying an AVR + extra speakers) or only use my beloved KEF LS 50W with bacch4mac as the source of audio for music and films.
Also, how many sources of sound can be connected to the Babyface Pro? Ideally in my situation would be optical from my TV + USB/Coaxial/Optical from my Windows machine, that has all my music.
Kind regards and looking forward to read your experiences!!!
 

onion

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
338
Likes
379
Cant help there - I use an AV receiver to decode atmos and other movie audio codecs. I don't know if a 2.0 stereo film track via BACCH would replicate the 3d sound-field that is delivered for music via BACCH. If it did, it would presumably only work for one listening position for now.
 

ccw

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
41
Likes
18
I have a bit but have been busy with work and family obligations. It sounds superb, and the automatic sample rate syncing is a welcome addition.
Playing through Roon, does the Bacch software limit the signal path to "high quality" rather than bit perfect lossless?
 
Last edited:

Theoretica Appl. Physics

Member
Audio Company
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
55
Likes
121
Location
Princeton, NJ
Playing through Roon, does the Bacch software limit the signal path to "high quality" rather than bit perfect lossless?

Roon only gives the rating “lossless” when it can hog the audio device exclusively, but that would prevent BACCH-dSP from doing its processing. Since Roon cannot vouch for what third-party processing does to the stream, the maximum rating it gives is “High Quality”.

The signal remains completely lossless from source to DAC as it goes through BACCH-dSP: If you bypass the BACCH filter in BACCH-dSP the signal sent by BACCH-dSP to the DAC is bit-to-bit the same as the one sent out from Roon. There is no compression of any kind at any point.

Buddy
@Theoretica
 

Arthur Cheng

New Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Messages
2
Likes
3
Hi Guys,

I have been using the BACCH system for awhile but one of the little that bugs me is the camera has to be placed somewhere about 2-3m from my seat which turns out to be in the middle of my room. The good news is that I managed to find a modification that works.

I found this web site about modifying a C920 to use c mount lens.

https://www.kurokesu.com/shop/KITC920

You can order the kit or the final product. The price is reasonable.

I received the modified c920 and the CCTV lens this week and I have just managed to set it up. For my room, about 6m from my seat to the front wall, I need to use the 25mm C mount lens which I bought here

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.73d62e8dF6upLg&id=594197970758&_u=dmc6apjed6d

There are many similar C mount lens that you can order on Ebay as well. It works extremely well. There are many lens option that suits different room. I did not replace the IR filter so the dark performance is a bit better. I will try complete darkness next and install this infrared illuminating light and hope the camera can see my face.

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...eea4240hGtpLy&id=576072104053&_u=t2dmg8j26111

Will again report back later.

Hope this helps. Enjoy

Arthur
 

onion

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
338
Likes
379
I am able to zoom my C920 - I sit about 4.5m away from the speakers. The BACCH4Mac program itself allows control of the webcam.
I am interested in the IR option - if you get this working, please do post a walk-through on how you set it up
Thanks
 

ccw

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
41
Likes
18
Last weekend I applied more aggressive DSP in my Dutch & Dutch 8Cs and then re-calibrated BACCH. These two steps seem to have resolved some of the bass issues that I was hearing in my system.

Low frequencies in my system, along with everything else, are now better with BACCH than without.

If you altered your DSP to your speakers to resolve bass issues you were hearing with Bacch would you not have a corresponding bass issue when outside Bacch's head tracking area? I guess not a problem if you're listening is done 100% in the Bacch space.
 
OP
D

Dialectic

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
1,738
Likes
3,091
Location
a fortified compound
If you altered your DSP to your speakers to resolve bass issues you were hearing with Bacch would you not have a corresponding bass issue when outside Bacch's head tracking area? I guess not a problem if you're listening is done 100% in the Bacch space.
The bass issue was a specific problem in the middle of the soundfield. On some recordings, images in the center of the stereo soundfield (such as piano in a piano concerto) could sound tonally thin, as though the low frequencies in the center of the soundfield were rolled off. Over a year ago, an updated version of BACCH included an adjustable bass correction algorithm that fixes the problem. I found the default mode to sound tonally the most similar to what I hear without BACCH engaged.
 

babysnake

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
40
Likes
14
Fascinating thread !

I fancy having a try with BACCH4MAC on my desktop system

Can anyone explain where B4M sits in the audio replay chain 'within' the Mac?

Specifically I'm trying to understand how I can integrate B4M and HQP/Roon ?

HQP Server and Roon Core sit on seperate networked machines from my Mac, so the Mac itself would only run NAAD and B4M and maybe RoonBridge ??

I've asked the question of Theoretica but I'd be interested in the views of anyone who has hands-on experience (I'm planning on trying the 'lite' version, so no additional hardware outside of my Mac and a USB DAC)

Many thanks
 

Theoretica Appl. Physics

Member
Audio Company
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
55
Likes
121
Location
Princeton, NJ
Fascinating thread !

I fancy having a try with BACCH4MAC on my desktop system

Can anyone explain where B4M sits in the audio replay chain 'within' the Mac?

Specifically I'm trying to understand how I can integrate B4M and HQP/Roon ?

HQP Server and Roon Core sit on seperate networked machines from my Mac, so the Mac itself would only run NAAD and B4M and maybe RoonBridge ??

I've asked the question of Theoretica but I'd be interested in the views of anyone who has hands-on experience (I'm planning on trying the 'lite' version, so no additional hardware outside of my Mac and a USB DAC)

Many thanks

Thank you for questions and interest in BACCH4Mac (B4M). We have just replied to your inquiry directly via email but since the questions you raise may be of interest to other people on this forum we thought it would be helpful to answer your questions here. Of course, we would be happy to read comments from B4M users who might have something to add to our replies.

Before we address your particular system that relies on HQPlayer, it may be helpful, for the sake of illustration, to start with a description of a Roon-sourced signal chain that includes BACCH4Mac (B4M) but does not include the HQPlayer

Most of the B4M users use Roon as the source, and many of them have it running as a Roon Core or Roon Server on a dedicated PC, a NUC or a Roon Nucleus, (or on the same Mac running B4M). We recommend simply making the Mac running BACCH-dSP (the application at the heart of our B4M products) a Roon endpoint by connecting it to the same LAN on which the PC/NUC is connected and running the free Roon Bridge app in the background on the Mac, which will make that Mac a Roon endpoint. It will then appear as a Roon audio zone on the Roon Remote running on any computer or mobile device that is connected to your LAN or its WiFi network. It is very simple to set up and we would show you how to do it during the walkthrough session that we offer each of our customers (although judging from your message, we think it would be an almost trivial thing for you).

The signal chain would then be as follows:

Option 1: PC (or NUC/Nucleus) Running Roon Core/Server app — [ethernet over LAN] —> Mac (running Roon Remote and BACCH-dSP) — [USB] —> DAC — [analog] —> amplification — [analog] —> speakers.

Next we will integrate your NAAD deamon in that chain. Although we are not familiar with the NAAD daemon you refer to, we gather from your message that it can run on the Mac. Therefore another version of the above that include the NAAD deamon is as follows

Option 2: PC (or NUC/Nucleus) Running Roon Core/Server app— [ethernet on LAN] —> Mac (running Roon Remote, BACCH-dSP and NAAD deamon) — [USB] —> DAC (or multiple DACs) — [analog] —> amplification — [analog] —> speakers.

Another equally valid alternative is to run Roon Core on the same Mac running BACCH-dSP. The chain will then be simpler:

Option 2.b: Mac (running Roon Core/Server, BACCH-dSP and NAAD daemon) — [USB] —> DAC (or multiple DACs) — [analog] —> amplification — [analog] —> speakers.

This can be done as long as your "NAAD daemon" appears as a “device" in the list of devices in the Audio Midi Setup app on the Mac. (the Mac’s Core Audio recognizes practically all modern USB DACs and audio interfaces as acceptable devices and we presume it would recognize the NAAD daemon as a virtual device to output to, if indeed it is designed to run on the Mac. BACCH-dSP will then list the NAAD daemon in its list of available devices to output to and you would simply select it from that output dropdown menu in BACCH-dSP.)

Before we consider how to integrate the HQPlayer in the chain we should note that BACCH-dSP (like any true DSP system) can only handle PCM (it does not do any sigma-delta processing or PCM conversion).

The easiest way to integrate HQPlayer in your chain is to run on it the same Mac that is running BACCH-dSP. We have tested this configuration and it woks flawlessly as far as we can tell. Here are the simple 3 steps that will set B4M to work with HQPlayer (we will be happy to walk you through them during the personal remote walkthrough session we offer each B4M customer):

1. You install a free piece of “loopback software” called BlackHole 2ch on your Mac. This will appear as a 2-in/2-out virtual device in the list of devices in Audio Midi Setup.

2. You then create an aggregate device in Audio Midi Setup that consists of a) "BlackHole 2ch “ and b) your DAC (or NAAD daemon, assuming the latter appears as a device, see above). You then give that device a specific name “SF4BACCH”.

3. In BACCH-dSP’s Advanced Settings panel there is a dropdown menu called “Auto Configure” from which you select the option “SF4BACCH”. This will run a script that, in a few seconds, automatically configures the I/O and loopback channels of BACCH-dSP to work with that virtual device. (You can also do the assignment manually if you wish).

To link Roon to HQPlayer you follow the simple steps on this webpage, which you are most likely familiar with. There you have the option of a) running Roon Core/Srever on the same Mac (using "localhost") for the HQPlayer address or b) running Roon Core/Server on another computer and using the IP address of the Mac running HQPlayer.

That’s it. Now anything you play in Roon will be sent to HQPlayer, where it gets processed then sent to BACCH-dSP where it gets BACCH’ed (and if you wish processed further) than sent to your DAC (or NAAD daemon).

Your signal chain will then look like either of the following options

Option 3: PC (or NUC/Nucleus) Running Roon Core/Server app — [ethernet over LAN] —> Mac (running HQPlayer, BACCH-dSP and NAAD daemon) — [USB] —> DAC — [analog] —> amplification — [analog] —> speakers.

or

Option 4: Mac (running Roon Core, HQPlayer, BACCH-dSP and NAAD daemon) — [USB] —> DAC — [analog] —> amplification — [analog] —> speakers.

The last option is obviously the simplest and most elegant one.

Now, if for whatever reason you do not wish to run HQPlayer on the same Mac but on another computer, there is a way, albeit a bit more complicated one, to do that.

You send the audio from Roon directly to BACCH-dSP (using the Roon Bridge app running in the background on the Mac) where it gets processed by BACCH-dSP then the Mac will send the processed audio to the computer running HQPlayer using an audio over IP (AoIP) solution. . We have tested such a solution using the Dante Virtal Soundcard between two Macs (as we do not deal with PCs) and it works perfectly fine. It is an all software-based solution (no extra hardware required), bit perfect and costs relatively little.

In that case your chain will look like this:

Option 4: Mac (running Roon Core, BACCH-dSP and Dante Virtal Soundcard) —[ethernet over LAN]—> Computer running HQPlayer and NADD daemon — [USB] —> DAC — [analog] —> amplification — [analog] —> speakers.

Finally, a side note:

Although you may well like what HQPlayer does you may want to re-consider the need of having two DSP/Player applications in series in the chain. Not there this any issue with that but solely from an advantage-to-complexity ratio point of view it may not be ideal. You will find that BACCH-dSP (even the Intro edition) offers many powerful DSP tools aside from applying BACCH filters. Namely, it can apply equalization, 3-band crossover filters, band/transducer-alignment time delays, and offers an almost infinite set of DSP options through its ability to instantiate VST or AU plugins at its output stage, which can be used, for instance, to apply room correction filters via convolution (all of these tools are available with B4M Into).

Regarding the manual: While our BACCH-SP hardware processor, has an extensive written manual, our software-based product, BACCH4Mac, which is far more configurable (as it is designed to integrate in any computer audio system) does not have a written manual. Instead we are developing a series of videos that show the features, functions and functionality of the BACCH-dSP application in detail. These videos will be released by December of 2020. Until then we are offering each BACCH-dSP user a time-unlimited walkthrough session with unlimited technical support. Although BACCH-dSP is intuitive to use, it is a very powerful and sophisticated application with many customizable features and settings, and all of our customers find the walkthrough session very helpful to quickly master the use of the application.

We hope the above is helpful and answers your questions.

Please do not hesitate to ask more questions.

Regards,
Buddy
Theoretica Tech Support
[email protected]

www.theoretica.us
 

babysnake

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
40
Likes
14
Just as an aside thread viewers, that response to a 6 line query of mine, took less than 20 hours to come back, on a weekend !!!

I had heard the tech support was first rank and I have experienced it now

Thank you
 

raterbil

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2021
Messages
5
Likes
1
@Theoretica Appl. Physics, are there plans to make this technology more accessible – the software, specially? I would love to have it, but unfortunately the price is waaaay beyond the reach of the majority of us.

Thanks!
 

phoenixdogfan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
3,294
Likes
5,071
Location
Nashville
@Theoretica Appl. Physics, are there plans to make this technology more accessible – the software, specially? I would love to have it, but unfortunately the price is waaaay beyond the reach of the majority of us.

Thanks!
Even on this site, I think only one or two members use this software. Moreover, there are virtually no reviews, and none of the few reviews provide any measurements which indicate exactly what this software is doing, how it's going about it, and whether it's a good idea to do what it's doing in the first place.

Until all that happens, I'm not at all convinced this is anything more than a very expensive sound effect.
 
Top Bottom