BACCH4 Mac ORC recommended recordinings?

[mieswall]

Hi everyone,

I’m currently using BACCH4Mac intro with two large dipole Analysis Audio Omega speakers in an acoustically treated room, paired with two JL Audio E112 subwoofers. I use ROON to apply some DSP (PEQs calculated using REW based on room measurements).

Previously, I used BACCH4Mac with “regular” speakers, which was already a great experience. However, with this setup, it’s on a whole new level.

Now, I have a little extra budget to spend (you know how it is at the end of the year!). I’m considering upgrading to BACCH4Mac Audiophile with ORC, but I’ve read and heard people say it might only bring around a 5% improvement? Is that true?

Would you say it’s worth the investment? I’d love to hear your thoughts or experiences.

To be honest I have never tried the intro version, just the audiophile one. But I really doubt the improvement to be just 5%. The audiophile ed is much more powerful, has the in-ear measurements customized for YOUR ears, the acoustics of your room and actual performance of your speakers become part of the equation, etc; so much sophistication that’s a completely different product imho.
And then there is ORC… in itself transformative.

 

[Gwreck]

You should definitely try it. The headtracking makes a big difference, and I would say it's at least a 20% improvement in sound. The ORC is also excellent, but I got it for free, so there is that.
If you don't like it, all you'll be out is the restocking fee.

BACCH is addictive so once you get the intro it’s almost a guarantee that the audiophile version will be coming soon.

 

[doorofnight]

This is on the website " The Intro edition does not come with any hardware and produces only u-BACCH filters, which give 3D sound over loudpseakers (with no head tracking) based on the user's input of two tape measuremets of the listening geometry. u-BACCH filters come close to the performance of regular BACCH filters, which rely on acoustic measuremts using the BACCH-BM in-ear mic, if the loudspeakers are well-matched in frequency and phase."

BACCH4Mac | Theoretica Applied Physics

The ultimate audiophile 3D audio playback system for Mac. Bringing BACCH® 3D Sound to Mac-based computer audio.

www.theoretica.us

My speakers meet this condition, so it might be more hassle than it's worth. Still, since it's something I can try at home, why not give it a shot, as Jimbill suggested? I'll need to think about it. Thank you for your replies!

 

[Gwreck]

I say it’s worth the shot and also BACCH is easier to get into than ever as the new Mac mini m4 meets the specs even with the base model and can be had for $500-550. There are also plenty of m2 Mac minis available used for a decent price with 16gb ram.

 

[doorofnight]

BACCh requires remastering every time I listen.

Could you provide more details?

 

[Gwreck]

Could you provide more details?

Basically the speakers and camera cannot move at all if you want the measurement to be accurate. My system is in a basement family room so the camera has a high chance of getting bumped or moved.

 

[jimbill]

Basically the speakers and camera cannot move at all if you want the measurement to be accurate. My system is in a basement family room so the camera has a high chance of getting bumped or moved.

I use a couple of small globs of Ticky Tac on the base of the camera, which sits atop my pre-amp. It makes it pretty stable. My speakers never get moved. Occasionally, the wife will move the sofa, my listening position, to vacuum and then I have to redo the filters. This doesn't occur more than once every couple of months.

Really, about the most I break out the BACCH is when I create a filter for a guest. And that's worth it to see the expression on their face!

 

[Gwreck]

I use a couple of small globs of Ticky Tac on the base of the camera, which sits atop my pre-amp. It makes it pretty stable. My speakers never get moved. Occasionally, the wife will move the sofa, my listening position, to vacuum and then I have to redo the filters. This doesn't occur more than once every couple of months.

Really, about the most I break out the BACCH is when I create a filter for a guest. And that's worth it to see the expression on their face!

That sounds like it’s pretty solid stability. I really think BACCH is one of my favorite pieces for technology ever. Is assume people who have not experienced it think I’m nuts when I evangelize about it. I could see myself going door to door giving demonstrations. I do have my set up pretty well optimized and am getting 22-24db XTC.

 

[jimbill]

That sounds like it’s pretty solid stability. I really think BACCH is one of my favorite pieces for technology ever. Is assume people who have not experienced it think I’m nuts when I evangelize about it. I could see myself going door to door giving demonstrations. I do have my set up pretty well optimized and am getting 22-24db XTC.

Wow! I'm only able to get between 14-16db XTC. But I'm not able to do much with the placement of my speakers, Martin Logan 13a's. The most I can pull them into the room is a little more than three feet for the panels. They are several feet from the side walls. I really don't have the option to add room treatment because the system is in the living room.

Have you found any tricks to getting better readings that I could use?

 

[Gwreck]

Wow! I'm only able to get between 14-16db XTC. But I'm not able to do much with the placement of my speakers, Martin Logan 13a's. The most I can pull them into the room is a little more than three feet for the panels. They are several feet from the side walls. I really don't have the option to add room treatment because the system is in the living room.

Have you found any tricks to getting better readings that I could use?

I have sanders ESL’s where the sweet spot can be measured in millimeters which makes the ML’s seem like Bose 901’s for dispersion. My room is wide. I have 4 inch panels to catch the back wave off my ESL’s and my couch has an excess number of furry pillows from my wife and kids. I think those things are why I can get over 20db. From my use though anything over 15b is about as good as it gets. Odd thing such as objects on the sofa table drastically cut down on my XTC numbers even if they are away from my head. I have ML motion XTB100’s next to the sanders for my home theater and I can get 10-13 db XTC from them.

 

[napfkuchen]

I could see myself going door to door giving demonstrations.

"Hello, I'm a BAACH's witness and would like to talk to you about XTC." "No, no, not TLC!" "No, no, not the band."

 

[Stefano_Milano]

If you like opera try this one. Big orchestral and organ effects with xtc. The beginning is spectacular.

 

[Gwreck]

"Hello, I'm a BAACH's witness and would like to talk to you about XTC." "No, no, not TLC!" "No, no, not the band."

Have you heard the Gospel of Edgar!

 

[doorofnight]

I orderd Bacch4mac Audiophile. It comes with ORC.

 

[jimbill]

I orderd Bacch4mac Audiophile. It comes with ORC.

So, he didn't charge you an additional $1000 for the ORC?

 

[jimbill]

That sounds like it’s pretty solid stability. I really think BACCH is one of my favorite pieces for technology ever. Is assume people who have not experienced it think I’m nuts when I evangelize about it. I could see myself going door to door giving demonstrations. I do have my set up pretty well optimized and am getting 22-24db XTC.

I know that if you change your primary seating location or move the camera or speakers, the XTC filter have to be redone. I was wondering if other furniture or even pillows on the sofa being moved causes a decrease in the XTC filters?

I also have a credenza between my speakers that has doors. Sometimes they are opened more or less. Do they have an effect on the XTC?

 

[Gwreck]

I know that if you change your primary seating location or move the camera or speakers, the XTC filter have to be redone. I was wondering if other furniture or even pillows on the sofa being moved causes a decrease in the XTC filters?

I also have a credenza between my speakers that has doors. Sometimes they are opened more or less. Do they have an effect on the XTC?

Here is my set up and I have 20+db XTC

 

[Bortman]

Here is my set up and I have 20+db XTC

Thanks for the your insights. A few quick questions:

1. The Model 10 ESLs are quite close to the front wall. Did you have them further out before using BACCH?
2. What is the size of your room?
3. Have you tried BACCH in a downmix of 5.1 surround to stereo?

 

[Gwreck]

Thanks for the your insights. A few quick questions:

1. The Model 10 ESLs are quite close to the front wall. Did you have them further out before using BACCH?
2. What is the size of your room?
3. Have you tried BACCH in a downmix of 5.1 surround to stereo?

1. They have been in that spot the whole time. The rear reflection does not bounce back to the main listening position but I do have 2x4ft 4inch panels to absorb much of the rear wave.
2. The room is an irregularly shaped basement family room 22x35 with 9ft celings but there is a 12x14 ft sunroom to the right. Mostly carpet except for behind the couch which is a bar and tile. The couch and AV set up is centered on the shorter side.
3. I have used BACCH to downmix 5.1 materials using the multiple analog inputs of the UCX II. The effect works well and can output sound behind one’s head. With the 3d mixer tools the virtual speakers can be moved anywhere in the sphere. There are also some effects like mild reverb that can be added for the sound to be a bit more natural. don’t have my own HRTF and there are tonality changes with it not being my personal HRTF. Basically BACCH has its HRTF’s
That one can select from one of the HRTF’s built into BACCh files (or load your own). I was thinking of buying the audiopraise unit that converts hdmi pcm 7.1 to usb but the down mix isn’t worth it due to me not having a personal HRTF.

 

[doorofnight]

Last night, Edgar installed Bacch Pro with ORC because I purchased Pro shortly after Bacch Intro. Since it was already late, I didn’t get a chance to listen right away.

This morning, I started exploring. Of course, the first thing I did was change the target curve, then I took new measurements and played around with ORC a lot. I ended up completely messing things up—I didn’t like the sound anymore. So, I watched Bacch Demystified, adjusted my speaker positioning, took more measurements, and eventually put the speakers back because the original toe-in sounded better.

Then, I created an old-fashioned U-Bacch filter to compare with Pro (both with ORC). At first, the difference between U-Bacch Intro and Bacch Pro seemed minimal. But after some time, I started noticing that the differences are actually quite significant. Instruments and sounds have more authority on the left and right, and the overall focus seems to have improved slightly. I also really like what ORC does sonically with the music.

As for head tracking, the difference between having it on or off is too subtle for me to distinguish in a blind test—at least for now. I always sit in the same spot and don’t move much, so I might get rid of the cam in the future. Not sure yet… but having a camera pointed at me all the time makes me a bit uneasy.