B &W advise needed

[Sammy77]

Anyone ever driven or sampled Canton , prices seem to be all over from top end at 65 grand to lower end at 700 dollars ., couldn’t sleep

I have been happy with my B&W 803S's for over 20 years. If ASR thinks they suck, it's all BS.

 

[Arindal]

I get the impression from everyone’s comments that B&W speakers are on the bright side,

That might be true to a number of models and for some series it might be even called a house sound (particularly D3 and D4), but not to all. The original 683 and CM7/CM8 were rather dull, some legacy 600 and Matrix 800/801 even neutral.

If you are limited to $8K, get 802D2.

These are equipped with large (yellow) Kevlar midrange drivers, which in many people´s understanding were not delivering balanced midrange over the whole listening window, and eventually being dumped by B&W themselves. As mentioned, I am not a fan of B&W (except for Volvo´s in-car-systems), but if you like the sound and are sure you have a sufficiently treated room, I´d better get a 803D3 and equalize the treble to perfection.

For this budget better get some KEF Blade 2

Of course everyone is free to offer alternatives according to personal preferences, but I noticed one interesting aspect: On this board, regularly the holy trinity of speaker manufacturers is recommended, which in my understanding delivesr a rather dull performance in most of rooms due to increasing directivity and lack of treble in the indirect sound (Unfortunately have to file MoFi under this category as well although I respect AJ´s work).

I do not think it makes sense to recommend such to anyone in the market for B&W. It is just a completely different sound philosophy. And obviously it is pretty difficult to find anything that is both technically righteous and would be appreciated by someone who likes B&W´s sound. I myself struggled, but could at least offer FinkTeam as an alternative. Maybe there are more.

People who liked B&W in recent 10 years at trade fairs or dealerships, supposedly like treble-rich sound. But B&W is not only treble-rich. If you have experienced a current B&W model in a studio control room or mastering suite being properly equalized, you realize they actually have their virtues of very wide and deep soundstage, fairly good imaging and extremely high, non-fatiguing detail resolution and transparency. It is not as easy as it sounds to find an alternative for $9k, IMHO.

 

[Sammy77]

That might be true to a number of models and for some series it might be even called a house sound (particularly D3 and D4), but not to all. The original 683 and CM7/CM8 were rather dull, some legacy 600 and Matrix 800/801 even neutral.



These are equipped with large (yellow) Kevlar midrange drivers, which in many people´s understanding were not delivering balanced midrange over the whole listening window, and eventually being dumped by B&W themselves. As mentioned, I am not a fan of B&W (except for Volvo´s in-car-systems), but if you like the sound and are sure you have a sufficiently treated room, I´d better get a 803D3 and equalize the treble to perfection.



Of course everyone is free to offer alternatives according to personal preferences, but I noticed one interesting aspect: On this board, regularly the holy trinity of speaker manufacturers is recommended, which in my understanding delivesr a rather dull performance in most of rooms due to increasing directivity and lack of treble in the indirect sound (Unfortunately have to file MoFi under this category as well although I respect AJ´s work).

I do not think it makes sense to recommend such to anyone in the market for B&W. It is just a completely different sound philosophy. And obviously it is pretty difficult to find anything that is both technically righteous and would be appreciated by someone who likes B&W´s sound. I myself struggled, but could at least offer FinkTeam as an alternative. Maybe there are more.

People who liked B&W in recent 10 years at trade fairs or dealerships, supposedly like treble-rich sound. But B&W is not only treble-rich. If you have experienced a current B&W model in a studio control room or mastering suite being properly equalized, you realize they actually have their virtues of very wide and deep soundstage, fairly good imaging and extremely high, non-fatiguing detail resolution and transparency. It is not as easy as it sounds to find an alternative for $9k, IMHO.

 

[Sammy77]

That might be true to a number of models and for some series it might be even called a house sound (particularly D3 and D4), but not to all. The original 683 and CM7/CM8 were rather dull, some legacy 600 and Matrix 800/801 even neutral.



These are equipped with large (yellow) Kevlar midrange drivers, which in many people´s understanding were not delivering balanced midrange over the whole listening window, and eventually being dumped by B&W themselves. As mentioned, I am not a fan of B&W (except for Volvo´s in-car-systems), but if you like the sound and are sure you have a sufficiently treated room, I´d better get a 803D3 and equalize the treble to perfection.



Of course everyone is free to offer alternatives according to personal preferences, but I noticed one interesting aspect: On this board, regularly the holy trinity of speaker manufacturers is recommended, which in my understanding delivesr a rather dull performance in most of rooms due to increasing directivity and lack of treble in the indirect sound (Unfortunately have to file MoFi under this category as well although I respect AJ´s work).

I do not think it makes sense to recommend such to anyone in the market for B&W. It is just a completely different sound philosophy. And obviously it is pretty difficult to find anything that is both technically righteous and would be appreciated by someone who likes B&W´s sound. I myself struggled, but could at least offer FinkTeam as an alternative. Maybe there are more.

People who liked B&W in recent 10 years at trade fairs or dealerships, supposedly like treble-rich sound. But B&W is not only treble-rich. If you have experienced a current B&W model in a studio control room or mastering suite being properly equalized, you realize they actually have their virtues of very wide and deep soundstage, fairly good imaging and extremely high, non-fatiguing detail resolution and transparency. It is not as easy as it sounds to find an alternative for $9k, IMHO.

 

[Sammy77]

I’m gonna try and get out there more, it’s tough finding showrooms in California, I’m gonna try to go to the audio conventions too, it’s a lot to take in , information wise and on the wallet, so it would be such a waist of time and energy not getting something I’m comfortable with, luckily I enjoy audio in general but it can be a bit overwhelming sometimes, hope to keep this chat going

 

[Mort]

Lol what is going on in this thread. This isn't Usenet.

Fwiw I ran B&W happily for years. I'm happier now with linear speakers.

 

[voodooless]

Hint:

Ascilab C8C Active Speaker Review

This is a review, listening tests and detailed measurements of the Ascilab active 3-way monitor with DSP and cardioid response. A member was kind enough to let me review his preorder. US Cost is $3,125 each (inclusive of tariff). Pricing varies in different regions. NOTE: My company...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[RexrothPigeon]

I do not think it makes sense to recommend such to anyone in the market for B&W. It is just a completely different sound philosophy.

your belief that most people are in the market for [specific brand of speaker] for sonic reasons is an assumption for which no evidence has been offered in proof, and it is unlikely to reflect reality.

 

[Sammy77]

your belief that most people are in the market for [specific brand of speaker] for sonic reasons is an assumption for which no evidence has been offered in proof, and it is unlikely to reflect reality.

I’m open to anything that gets my 6000 songs rocking, the real test comes when listening to different music, and I listen to everything, I browsed through the C8C specs/reviews and will comb through it after breakfast and from the design it looks way more commercial per say from the back, wouldn’t all that cause interference////:?¿

 

[staticV3]

from the design it looks way more commercial per say from the back, wouldn’t all that cause interference////:?¿

Do you mean the Hypex Plate Amp?
No it's built specifically for that purpose and will not interfere with the sound.

 

[Arindal]

your belief that most people are in the market for [specific brand of speaker] for sonic reasons is an assumption for which no evidence has been offered in proof, and it is unlikely to reflect reality.

If you want to say that people could not distinguish an overly brilliant, treble-rich speaker from a very dull sounding one (in a living room) with narrowing dispersion, well, you basically say by that: they are all deaf, not only biased, neither measured linearity nor subjective tonality matter anyhow. Which leaves the only consequential recommendation to buy the cheapest speaker on the market looking more or less like the preferred concept. Is that what you want to say?

I don´t subscribe to that, but it would basically leave all recommendations for better-measuring and differently-looking speakers completely useless.

 

[Sammy77]

your belief that most people are in the market for [specific brand of speaker] for sonic reasons is an assumption for which no evidence has been offered in proof, and it is unlikely to reflect reality.

Are they SOC 2 compliant?¿. …..joke

 

[Ropeburn]

Anyone ever driven or sampled Canton , prices seem to be all over from top end at 65 grand to lower end at 700 dollars ., couldn’t sleep

View attachment 516082

Canton is an old manufacturer from the "Taunus sound" era, an area north of Frankfurt where a good handful of German speaker manufacturers originated in the late 40s to 70s.

Canton is the only "real survivor" so to speak, after a brief period of Japanese business involvement (Sony), it remains the only privately owned among them and is the biggest German manufacturer still today.

House sound and tuning is typically continental European: "neutral with good bass". Market presence in the US has never been big, instead they're a household name all over Europe. Iirc the US only gets the higher end models, while the budget lines, particularly GLE, could be found in about every other German household. Good, affordable hifi to "mid-fi" has always been their business model.

 

[idrachman]

One speaker that I've heard with my friend's HEGEL integrated is the Triangle 40th Anniversary Series Antal speaker, about $5000/pair. They impressed me given their bass, tonal balanced, soundstage, top end. After recently hearing the 802 D4 (diamond tweeter, $30K) at a showroom, the top end was much more prominent, I can see why people can get fatigued after a longer listening session. I also heard at the same sitting the FOCAL Sopra (berellium tweeter, $20K). I bring this up because I think the Triangle speakers are better than both of these. Good luck with your search.

 

[Sammy77]

Canton is an old manufacturer from the "Taunus sound" era, an area north of Frankfurt where a good handful of German speaker manufacturers originated in the late 40s to 70s.

View attachment 516167

Canton is the only "real survivor" so to speak, after a brief period of Japanese business involvement (Sony), it remains the only privately owned among them and is the biggest German manufacturer still today.

House sound and tuning is typically continental European: "neutral with good bass". Market presence in the US has never been big, instead they're a household name all over Europe. Iirc the US only gets the higher end models, while the budget lines, particularly GLE, could be found in about every other German household. Good, affordable hifi to "mid-fi" has always been their business model.

I’m drooling over their high end models !

 

[Avp1]

These are equipped with large (yellow) Kevlar midrange drivers, which in many people´s understanding were not delivering balanced midrange over the whole listening window, and eventually being dumped by B&W themselves. As mentioned, I am not a fan of B&W (except for Volvo´s in-car-systems), but if you like the sound and are sure you have a sufficiently treated room, I´d better get a 803D3 and equalize the treble to perfection.

They used these yellow cones for more than 15 years since the time of Matrix series in 1990s. Back then B&W were considered sufficiently neutral for use in studios. 80xD2 is the last model with that driver type. Actually B&W 80x speakers were getting brighter and brighter with each generation. If someone likes B&W sound and has decently treated room, they are still good option. Mid-range may not be as clear as in ATC, but overall sound and importantly sound staging are good. Again - high current amplifier is a must to get acceptable results. Many forget about that and blame speakers for bad sound instead.

 

[Ropeburn]

Actually B&W 80x speakers were getting brighter and brighter with each generation.

That almost sounds like the same designer keeps compensating for aging ears over the years...

 

[Sammy77]

I’m open to anything that gets my 6000 songs rocking, the real test comes when listening to different music, and I listen to everything, I browsed through the C8C specs/reviews and will comb through it after breakfast and from the design it looks way more commercial per say from the back, wouldn’t all that cause interference////:?¿

That might be true to a number of models and for some series it might be even called a house sound (particularly D3 and D4), but not to all. The original 683 and CM7/CM8 were rather dull, some legacy 600 and Matrix 800/801 even neutral.



These are equipped with large (yellow) Kevlar midrange drivers, which in many people´s understanding were not delivering balanced midrange over the whole listening window, and eventually being dumped by B&W themselves. As mentioned, I am not a fan of B&W (except for Volvo´s in-car-systems), but if you like the sound and are sure you have a sufficiently treated room, I´d better get a 803D3 and equalize the treble to perfection.



Of course everyone is free to offer alternatives according to personal preferences, but I noticed one interesting aspect: On this board, regularly the holy trinity of speaker manufacturers is recommended, which in my understanding delivesr a rather dull performance in most of rooms due to increasing directivity and lack of treble in the indirect sound (Unfortunately have to file MoFi under this category as well although I respect AJ´s work).

I do not think it makes sense to recommend such to anyone in the market for B&W. It is just a completely different sound philosophy. And obviously it is pretty difficult to find anything that is both technically righteous and would be appreciated by someone who likes B&W´s sound. I myself struggled, but could at least offer FinkTeam as an alternative. Maybe there are more.

People who liked B&W in recent 10 years at trade fairs or dealerships, supposedly like treble-rich sound. But B&W is not only treble-rich. If you have experienced a current B&W model in a studio control room or mastering suite being properly equalized, you realize they actually have their virtues of very wide and deep soundstage, fairly good imaging and extremely high, non-fatiguing detail resolution and transparency. It is not as easy as it sounds to find an alternative for $9k, IMHO.

That might be true to a number of models and for some series it might be even called a house sound (particularly D3 and D4), but not to all. The original 683 and CM7/CM8 were rather dull, some legacy 600 and Matrix 800/801 even neutral.



These are equipped with large (yellow) Kevlar midrange drivers, which in many people´s understanding were not delivering balanced midrange over the whole listening window, and eventually being dumped by B&W themselves. As mentioned, I am not a fan of B&W (except for Volvo´s in-car-systems), but if you like the sound and are sure you have a sufficiently treated room, I´d better get a 803D3 and equalize the treble to perfection.



Of course everyone is free to offer alternatives according to personal preferences, but I noticed one interesting aspect: On this board, regularly the holy trinity of speaker manufacturers is recommended, which in my understanding delivesr a rather dull performance in most of rooms due to increasing directivity and lack of treble in the indirect sound (Unfortunately have to file MoFi under this category as well although I respect AJ´s work).

I do not think it makes sense to recommend such to anyone in the market for B&W. It is just a completely different sound philosophy. And obviously it is pretty difficult to find anything that is both technically righteous and would be appreciated by someone who likes B&W´s sound. I myself struggled, but could at least offer FinkTeam as an alternative. Maybe there are more.

People who liked B&W in recent 10 years at trade fairs or dealerships, supposedly like treble-rich sound. But B&W is not only treble-rich. If you have experienced a current B&W model in a studio control room or mastering suite being properly equalized, you realize they actually have their virtues of very wide and deep soundstage, fairly good imaging and extremely high, non-fatiguing detail resolution and transparency. It is not as easy as it sounds to find an alternative for $9k, IMHO.

 

[Ropeburn]

View attachment 516002
My Baby

Nice car. However, my tastes are more... frugal?

Now that is a proper Mercedes. We had one of those in my unit. I didn't have a license, just moved it on base a bit illegally lol, these drive just like big cars. And being the gunner is awesome, with that ring mount and badarse cold war MG3.

 

[Doenerkunde]

Canton is an old manufacturer from the "Taunus sound" era, an area north of Frankfurt where a good handful of German speaker manufacturers originated in the late 40s to 70s.

View attachment 516167

Canton is the only "real survivor" so to speak, after a brief period of Japanese business involvement (Sony), it remains the only privately owned among them and is the biggest German manufacturer still today.

Also admirable how Canton has been able to keep its whole production (not just the final assembly) in Europe. Contrast that with e.g. Dynaudio whose entry series just a decade ago used to be Made in Denmark with die cast baskets (DM), but now is Made in China with stamped steel baskets while still being 50% more expensive (Emit).