B&W 805

[LTig]

I misunderstood you, I thought you were saying that the Amphions measure well yet sound bad. Just because it has a waveguide is certainly no guarantee that it measures well. Not all waveguides provide superior polar response to direct radiating tweeter, although of course a good one should.

Yep. In my view having a waveguide is one of the necessities for good sound, but not the only one. The maker can still chose a bad or non matching driver.

 

[617]

Because its the report of the subjective reviewer which counts and not JAs measurements.

"It's like Patricia Barber was in the room with me"

 

[617]

Yep. In my view having a waveguide is one of the necessities for good sound, but not the only one. The maker can still chose a bad or non matching driver.

I mean that's a pretty elementary mistake. DIYers manage to match waveguides to tweeters with reasonable success.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Yep. In my view having a waveguide is one of the necessities for good sound, but not the only one

I wouldn't go quite that far, although I wouldn't personally design a speaker without one.

 

[Audiojim]

I heard the m126be Revel and there was no bass. I had the same problem with the higher frequencies sounding too harsh.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I mean that's a pretty elementary mistake. DIYers manage to match waveguides to tweeters with reasonable success.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...rc-measurements-amphion-argon3-l-loudspeakers

https://www.stereophile.com/content/amphion-heliumsup2sup-loudspeaker-measurements

Not particularly good driver integration on these two models.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I heard the m126be Revel and there was no bass. I had the same problem with the higher frequencies sounding too harsh.

I'd strongly recommend buying a setup that includes two subwoofers in the price range you're looking at. It can be hard to get good bass without having some control over where woofers are placed in the room and how they are EQ'd. It's also not possible to get solid, deep bass with reasonably low distortion out of a pair of small standmounts at any price point.

 

[Audiojim]

But what about the problem I hear in the upper frequency range? I dont know if theres something wrong with my hearing since they all sound like this, at least the ones I've heard. I seem to have some higher frequency hearing loss.

 

[LTig]

But what about the problem I hear in the upper frequency range? I dont know if theres something wrong with my hearing since they all sound like this, at least the ones I've heard. I seem to have some higher frequency hearing loss.

If you have typical hearing loss at high frequencies speakers would not sound harsh but soft.

 

[Ron Texas]

Measurements will not tell us much though will they? I went out and heard some amphions based on all the positive reviews and supposed benefits of waveguides. I could easily hear the tweeter separately from the woofer. It was very harsh.

Thats the problem, I cant find anything that does sound good. I seem to prefer a substantial dip from 2khz upwards, although this could simply be that I'm hearing problems in that range that are mitigated by reducing the level in that range.

You might be looking for the BBC dip. No wonder you don't like KEF's. Unless the OP lives in a major center where there are lots of independent dealers, it's going to be tough.

Try this:
https://www.stereophile.com/content...-anniversary-edition-loudspeaker-measurements

$6495 in the US, probably less in the UK.

 

[617]

OP could also just buy an accurate speaker and use an equalizer. Or get a kit and adjust the tweeter padding resistor. I also find a lot of hifi speakers pretty bright sounding, but when I hear speakers that are fairly linear from 300-7000hz they sound alright to me.

 

[Audiojim]

You might be looking for the BBC dip. No wonder you don't like KEF's. Unless the OP lives in a major center where there are lots of independent dealers, it's going to be tough.

We do have many dealers but I only really trust a home demo. Few will alllow this.

 

[Audiojim]

OP could also just buy an accurate speaker and use an equalizer. Or get a kit and adjust the tweeter padding resistor. I also find a lot of hifi speakers pretty bright sounding, but when I hear speakers that are fairly linear from 300-7000hz they sound alright to me.

300~7000 is pretty much the entire range. Theres not much above that. My hearing cuts off about 9khz

 

[andreasmaaan]

But what about the problem I hear in the upper frequency range? I dont know if theres something wrong with my hearing since they all sound like this, at least the ones I've heard. I seem to have some higher frequency hearing loss.

I'm not sure, but as @Ron Texas suggests, perhaps you have a preference for speakers with a slight dip in the "presence" region. Or perhaps the recordings or genres you like are a bit harsh in the treble.

OTOH, if you're listening to standmount speakers in rooms where there are nulls in the bass response due to room modes, you may be interpreting a lack of bass energy as an excess of treble.

Would you be interested in messing around with a software equaliser? There would be no loss of fidelity and you could EQ a good, neutral speaker to taste.

EDIT: @617 beat me to it

 

[andreasmaaan]

300~7000 is pretty much the entire range. Theres not much above that. My hearing cuts off about 9khz

Most of what is perceived as treble harshness is in the 2-5kHz range, so hearing loss above 9kHz probably won't make a sharp speaker sound dull - as confirmed by your experience.

 

[andreasmaaan]

PS I'd still strongly recommend using subs though, given your budget.

 

[Ron Texas]

I'm not sure, but as @Ron Texas

Would you be interested in messing around with a software equaliser? There would be no loss of fidelity and you could EQ a good, neutral speaker to taste.

EDIT: @617 beat me to it

I use software eq, or it's possible to spend money on a hardware gadget too. There are some limitations for people who insist on a direct analogue stream, or a pure DSD stream, software EQ is kind of difficult.

 

[Audiojim]

I'm not sure, but as @Ron Texas

Would you be interested in messing around with a software equaliser? There would be no loss of fidelity and you could EQ a good, neutral speaker to taste.

EDIT: @617 beat me to it

I already have one. Thats what enables me to identify the exact frequencies I find harsh. But my own experiments show that EQ cannot compensate a bad crossover. This implies that the problem isn't really frequency response but phase response.

 

[Ron Texas]

PS I'd still strongly recommend using subs though, given your budget.

This morning I did a quick comparo using the first track of Jennifer Warnes, The Hunter. Without a sub the bass was almost missing. Adding a low shelf filter of only 2 db added a lot of bass to the sound, but it lacked definition or extension. It was nowhere near the quality of the rest of what LS50's do. With the sub turned on all the bass line is there both with extension and definition. Yes it was sighted, but the differences are dramatic.

As noted above, there are some who feel a sub (or 4) are always necessary, even with true full range speakers. There is also a recent piece in The Stereophile noting the challenges of using full range speakers. I suppose the author doesn't believe in EQ.

 

[Ron Texas]

I already have one. Thats what enables me to identify the exact frequencies I find harsh. But my own experiments show that EQ cannot compensate a bad crossover. This implies that the problem isn't really frequency response but phase response.

Then, I am surprised you don't want to try studio monitors because the DSP when done right fixes problems with crossovers.