B&W 800D4 series

[MarcT]

Their target curve is aimed at those with high frequency hearing loss and plenty of money to spend.

Lol, I have ample high frequency hearing loss(can't hear much of anything above 9500Hz), but the D3 models I've heard at audio shows seemed to have a pronounced very high frequency "zinging" sound to them. Like a super high buzzing sound. I had to get out of the room pretty quickly.

 

[MarcT]

I am very keen to see how the D4 series measures

Yes, all their marketing speak about the various purported technological improvements notwithstanding, it will largely come down to how they "voice" their frequency response. If they retain that hot high frequency level, then the people who don't like the D3 will not like the D4 either.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

I am very keen to see how the D4 series measures

If it's anything like the D3 series, each speaker in the series will measure differently.

 

[DACs_Lover]

And I should trust Stereophile that puts KEF reference 5 in their B category of speakers?

A few years back, I bought KEF LS50, then I was hooked to the co-axial drivers. I had Focal 1038be, B&W 804 in the past. KEF is very special to me. I've used KEF Ref 1 for a while and deeply impressed. Bought LS50 Meta a few months ago for home theater.

I know that KEF ref series is very good from reading around here, but have never heard Ref 5 before. Is it in the same class as B&W 800 new series.?

Look forward to the new KEF REF series.

 

[ti33er]

I’d love to see those measurements.

…here is what he found initially, that’s via the crossover that was emailed to me. Frustratingly he had a pile of other measurements showing native responses and compared directly to his reference models (one of which had a 0.5db tolerance across the entire frequency spectrum, his prize self designed) when I went round to collect my Speakers last month which he showed me on his screen; but hadn’t saved them (ARGH) when I asked for them the next day

He is not a ‘friend’ of mine, I was seeking out a solution to my D3 tweeter woes and stumbled across his website - he teaches Classes about XO Design too, if I get made redundant (lol) I might try a new avenue of occupation ;-)

This was his Website, very nice guy in his 70s http://www.loudspeaker-design-restoration.co.uk/

 

[PKAudio]

ti33er: looking at those measurements, I can see that overall tuning, individual drivers responses, phase tracking issues are still there even for D3 line and match the issues of D2 line. SO no progress in that regard, and I do not expect different approach in D4.
https://pkaudio.webnode.cz/bw802d2/

 

[tecnogadget]

I don’t get you guys why you like so much running in circles. This is a post meant to comunicate the leak of new D4 like, there is already a thread where people started fighting over the D3 series and older, one side saying it has some high frequency peaking, and the other side saying they have listened by them self and find them the best thing out there. And the Abbey Road and other recording studios was already touched there.

Is this audio boredom forum ?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...00-d3-vs-kef-blade-lets-discuss.18926/page-21

And the last response was from just 2 weeks ago...

 

[ti33er]

…not everybody frequents this Forum, reads every post nor every thread regularly here - were just having some fun; and it’s related …I am very keen to see what Bowers have done with the D4 Tweeter as I hate what they did with the D3! With the mod I’ve got I’m finally enjoying my (expensive to me) 805D3 that I plundered month/s of hard earned Salary into

 

[ti33er]

…but I also understand what you are saying

 

[Art Vandelay]

…here is what he found initially, that’s via the crossover that was emailed to me. Frustratingly he had a pile of other measurements showing native responses and compared directly to his reference models (one of which had a 0.5db tolerance across the entire frequency spectrum, his prize self designed) when I went round to collect my Speakers last month which he showed me on his screen; but hadn’t saved them (ARGH) when I asked for them the next day

He is not a ‘friend’ of mine, I was seeking out a solution to my D3 tweeter woes and stumbled across his website - he teaches Classes about XO Design too, if I get made redundant (lol) I might try a new avenue of occupation ;-)

This was his Website, very nice guy in his 70s http://www.loudspeaker-design-restoration.co.uk/

I took some measurements some time ago of my D2's tweeter - without the mids or woofers connected to the crossover. Measurement mic used was an earthworks M30, and distance is 1m and on axis.

Note, the series 4.7uF cap in the crossover is in cct for protection, but as you can see there's no real evidence of a "peak" at 10kHz.

 

[ti33er]

Thanks Art, I can’t comment on that D2 but it definitely exists on the D3 …if I had my time over I’d buy a pair of 802D2, which would have cost about the same on the used market!

 

[Art Vandelay]

Thanks Art, I can’t comment on that D2 but it definitely exists on the D3 …if I had my time over I’d buy a pair of 802D2, which would have cost about the same on the used market!

The main thing is to be happy with what you're hearing in your listening room / space.

B&W's aren't for everyone that's for sure and they're almost as polarizing as Donald Trump in forums such as this.
Most of the reasons for the on-axis response irregularities stem from the crossover design, which also creates a loss of off-axis energy at around 2kHz. This is apparently deliberate and designed to create a 'house sound' that compensates to some extent for recording techniques in classical recordings. Whether it achieves that objective I can't say, because I mostly listen to jazz, rock or popular.

For what it's worth I also modified the crossovers in my 800D2's so that the off-axis dip at 2kH is 50% corrected, and on-axis is a bit flatter too.
Ultimately, it's my intention to convert to DSP / active, so even if I purchase a new D4 model I intend to keep the D2's for experimental purposes.

 

[bo_knows]

Really precise and trustable measurements of the 800 D3 were made Prof. Anselm Goertz who measures also the studio monitors for Sound & Recording:

View attachment 148119
Source: https://www.fidelity-online.de/bowers-wilkins-800-d3-messungen/

Its on-axis linearity is quite good with ±2,6 dB between 100 Hz und 10 kHz, its harmonic and multi-tone distortion measurements are very good, only its directivities are not great, but to be expected from the engineering choices (driver sizes and baffles, crossover frequencies and steepness):

View attachment 148120

A few years back, I bought KEF LS50, then I was hooked to the co-axial drivers. I had Focal 1038be, B&W 804 in the past. KEF is very special to me. I've used KEF Ref 1 for a while and deeply impressed. Bought LS50 Meta a few months ago for home theater.

I know that KEF ref series is very good from reading around here, but have never heard Ref 5 before. Is it in the same class as B&W 800 new series.?

Look forward to the new KEF REF series.

I'm a KEF fan and it appears you are one as well. The sound of new KEF speakers is something I've been looking for forever since I got into this hobby.
I will no longer pick on John Atkinson and his decision to award KEF reference 5 speaker their B category.
I'm sure he had his reasons and he's been doing this for a long time.
All I know is that KEF reference 5 spinorama (mind you provided by the manufacturer) has scored pretty high.
https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/
I doubt, B&W will score any higher...

 

[preload]

I'm a KEF fan and it appears you are one as well. The sound of new KEF speakers is something I've been looking for forever since I got into this hobby.
I will no longer pick on John Atkinson and his decision to award KEF reference 5 speaker their B category.
I'm sure he had his reasons and he's been doing this for a long time.
All I know is that KEF reference 5 spinorama (mind you provided by the manufacturer) has scored pretty high.
https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/
I doubt, B&W will score any higher...

Theres no way a B&W will “score” higher on a pref score analysis derived from spinoramas. Their design approach is different. Then again if a spinorama enthusiast tells me my spinorama predicts that I won’t prefer a speaker, but I actually do, then I am not so weak minded as to say “oh well I guess my hearing is defective cuz the spinorama is the truth.” That and I also understand the research behind predicted pref scores.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

I'm a KEF fan and it appears you are one as well. The sound of new KEF speakers is something I've been looking for forever since I got into this hobby.
I will no longer pick on John Atkinson and his decision to award KEF reference 5 speaker their B category.
I'm sure he had his reasons and he's been doing this for a long time.
All I know is that KEF reference 5 spinorama (mind you provided by the manufacturer) has scored pretty high.
https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/
I doubt, B&W will score any higher...

Lol, you can't take serious Stereophile.
This is a rank A Bowers & Wilkins 705 Signature 3999 usd, measurements from stereophile:

Another tier A from stereophile Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition: $16,900/pair

Hope no one of my speaker get rank A from stereophile

 

[SynthesisCinema]

 

[AverageJoeAudiophile]

Except that ... people who A-B live, unamplified music in a real space with real-time recordings a hundred times a day seem to choose them. Skywalker Sound - with an unlimited choice - just got B&Ws. Plus Abbey Road, of course. Both places are big enough for full orchestras. I'm not a huge B&W fan myself, but your premise isn't borne out.

Those were and are much older models that actually did measure good.

 

[Matias]

Great video with factory visit and many interesting construction details!

 

[ti33er]

I’d love to work there…polishing turbine heads ;-)

 

[bo_knows]

Great video with factory visit and many interesting construction details!

Wow! IMPRESSIVE! Danny from GR research would approve the D4 crossover parts.
Nothing but the best (Mundorf)!
I wish I could say the same for KEF reference 3 crossover parts, but I can't. Full of cheesy parts to borrow Denny's terminology.

Maybe it's time to jump the ship