B&W 800 D3 vs KEF Blade. Let's discuss.

[PierreV]

I compared Giya G3, Blade 2 and Scala Utopia at the dealer. I ended up choosing the G3, which was the most "disappearing" and resolving speaker in my subjective experience in the dealer's listening room, with the Blade 2 a close second. The Utopias were, subjectively, more punchy. All very subjective, I know.

Where the story takes a fun turn is when the Giya blew one of its high mids for no particular reason (let's say that Vivid speakers aren't reliability models and leave it at that). That prompted me to get the Utopias as a backup, my subjective line of reasoning being that when the Giyas had been repaired I would have two options: the resolving G3 and the punchy Utopia.

5-6 months after I got both setups running side by side, I had developed the habit of listening to everything classical/jazzy on the Giyas and everything rock/electronic on the Utopias.

I did not question that habit until I started blind testing at which point I realized I couldn't actually reliably tell which pair was playing
(I have since trained myself to detect the differences, but it requires some effort...)

Bottom line, in hindsight, I fell the best initial buy I should have done was probably a pair of reliable Blade 2.

did try to hear the BW, but can't really stand the local dealer bullshit and semi arrogant attitude (I confess that I probably don't dress like a potential customer for "high end" audio...)

 

[watchnerd]

Not that YouTube sound from an iPhone is good....but it's an Italian show.

 

[Purité Audio]

You really need to hear some ‘possibles’ in your own room, then you can form a really valid opinion.
The new SBIR types, kii, Dutch&Dutch offer lots of scope for adjustment they should be set up by someone with experience or perhaps even remotely by the manufacturer if there are no local representatives.
Dutch&Dutch offer this option.
Keith

 

[thewas]

As many people said, listening with your preferred music and if possible even in your own room is a must, as they all matter, plus personal preferences and taste.

For me personally the Blade 2 is one of the best compromises between sound and look and personally gave me the best sound demo ever (at the KEF factory in UK) although I have heard the Neumann KH420 and O500C at Neumann which according to us tech plot reading fans would be almost better. A good friend of mine who also is into objective audio also preferred the sound of the big Geithain 921K to his Neumann KH420 which he sold after and doesn't like the Genelec Ones sound either as much, at the highest levels comparing small different flaws is often like apples and peas.

 

[watchnerd]

I compared Giya G3, Blade 2 and Scala Utopia at the dealer. I ended up choosing the G3, which was the most "disappearing" and resolving speaker in my subjective experience in the dealer's listening room, with the Blade 2 a close second. The Utopias were, subjectively, more punchy. All very subjective, I know.

Where the story takes a fun turn is when the Giya blew one of its high mids for no particular reason (let's say that Vivid speakers aren't reliability models and leave it at that). That prompted me to get the Utopias as a backup, my subjective line of reasoning being that when the Giyas had been repaired I would have two options: the resolving G3 and the punchy Utopia.

5-6 months after I got both setups running side by side, I had developed the habit of listening to everything classical/jazzy on the Giyas and everything rock/electronic on the Utopias.

I did not question that habit until I started blind testing at which point I realized I couldn't actually reliably tell which pair was playing
(I have since trained myself to detect the differences, but it requires some effort...)

Bottom line, in hindsight, I fell the best initial buy I should have done was probably a pair of reliable Blade 2.

did try to hear the BW, but can't really stand the local dealer bullshit and semi arrogant attitude (I confess that I probably don't dress like a potential customer for "high end" audio...)

I think @Thomas savage also had reliability problems with his Giya's.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi @bandit

Please do not take this as condescension. The B&W is not what you should look at. These days there are much better speakers at saner prices. THe majority here ( count me in) prefer active speakers. There are passive speakers that are very good but they are not as flexible as the better actives.
I would recommend to look at Revel.
Currently they have the
Revel Salon 2 around $22,000 in the USA
Revel F328Be Speaker $16,000 in the USA

I woul surmise both are better than the B&W.
For much less money, I would recommend to go toward the Dutch and Dutch 8C, complete system, just add a digital source, 12,000 Euros in Europe
If you really want to spend that kind of money.. You can't do worse than the
Kii 3 (complete audio system) about 10,000 euros and if there is the need, add the BXT woofers for a total of about $32,000 (Complete System Kii 3 + BXT woofers)
or , please don't laugh and this is serious

The Bang & Olufsen Beolab 50...
A complete serious audio system that is arguably one of the best looking speaker around. Audiophiles of all persuasion tend to dismiss B&O. Those speakers are the real deal. They deserve an audition and prepare to be shocked.
Peace

 

[Koloth]

Hi @bandit
The Bang & Olufsen Beolab 50...
A complete serious audio system that is arguably one of the best looking speaker around. Audiophiles of all persuasion tend to dismiss B&O. Those speakers are the real deal. They deserve an audition and prepare to be shocked.
Peace

I was considering putting those in my list as well, but at 80'000 USD/pair they are 3-4x the cost of the models he mentioned

 

[LTig]

I would never buy any of those because they're not what I want to see in my living room.

I don't want big black utilitarian studio monitor speakers in my living room. I save that look for my office.

Maybe the Kii's would be okay, as they're not quite as pro-audio looking.

You should leave this decision to @bandit.

 

[watchnerd]

You should leave this decision to @bandit.

Nothing I said deprives him of making his own decision.

 

[LTig]

I've mentioned the Grimm Audio LS1. Here is my report on these (LS1be with LS1s-dmf sub) from Munich-Highend 2019 including pics.

 

[LTig]

Nothing I said deprives him of making his own decision.

It doesn't help him either and pollutes the thread (just as this posting, so I will be quiet in this matter hence for).

 

[MZKM]

I’ve heard both for a short period (B&W at a Magnolia DC and the KEF at an audio show). All I can say is I wouldn’t shell out $20,000-$30,000 for either. No hate on either, I just couldn’t hear what justified their huge price of going just by sonics (not that I could afford either anyway).

 

[andreasmaaan]

@bandit can I ask why you’re looking at the KEF Blades rather than one of the larger Reference models? I have to admit that I’m not aware of any comprehensive measurements of the KEF blades, but based on the measurements I have seen, I’m not convinced the larger Reference models aren’t better speakers.

 

[watchnerd]

I’ve heard both for a short period (B&W at a Magnolia DC and the KEF at an audio show). All I can say is I wouldn’t shell out $20,000-$30,000 for either. No hate on either, I just couldn’t hear what justified their huge price of going just by sonics (not that I could afford either anyway).

There are serious diminishing returns in speakers, especially these days. Modestly priced designs have gotten so much better.

And when you get to the upper echelons, it's often more about "pick your difference", anyway.

I just ordered a pair of $7K speakers that, on the whole, aren't better in every category than the $5K speakers I own now. They're different, though, for sure.

 

[fredoamigo]

That's my main issue. I know it's stupid because I'm on a forum called "audio science review" but at the same time I'm very fond of the aesthetics of the components and it's really hard to upgrade a system trying to please both your ears and eyes.

If you are really ready for this amount in state of the art loudspeakers ...today there is a lot of choice for the eyes and ears ...personally for this price I would go for kii with BXT or GENELEC 8361 with W371 after all depends on the size of the room and its design ...

 

[TimVG]

For these, to me, insane amounts of money I'd probably have a room built to spec with in-wall monitors and a double bass array. The combination just about solving anything in terms of boundary interference issues. Although some of these do look pretty I must say.

 

[steve59]

If I learned anything buying and selling all the expensive speakers over the last 5 years it’s that passive speakers can be finicky about rooms placement and components and what I hear in the store/axpona demo/friends etc is once home the speakers sound nothing like what attracted me to them.

Active dsp just because they all have the same components built in will sound more like than different. That said I’ll probably buy a used pair of blades before claiming active is better than passive in a blanket statement.

 

[thewas]

@bandit can I ask why you’re looking at the KEF Blades rather than one of the larger Reference models? I have to admit that I’m not aware of any comprehensive measurements of the KEF blades, but based on the measurements I have seen, I’m not convinced the larger Reference models aren’t better speakers.

The Blade 2 (not the first larger one) measure imho even smoother than the also great current Reference ones due to their rounded surface, the Reference uses the "shadow flare" to reduce the effect (see the white paper https://www.shop.us.kef.com/pub/med...rence/REF_White_Paper_preview_path_200514.pdf ) of the edges but still...

Below some measurements of the Ref 5 vs Blade 2 both from Stereophile to be more comparable (on top always Ref 5):

Sources: https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-reference-5-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-blade-two-loudspeaker-measurements

A more significant difference though is that the Blade 2 starts having directivity earlier but keeps it more constant like a kind of CD vs. the more increasing to higher frequencies directivity of the Ref 5 which choice is preferred is rather a matter of personal taste and room acoustics.

I know for myself anyway if money wasn't an issue I would go for the Blade 2 but the Ref is a great approximation for a quite lower price with a "non cult" design though. The Blade will be also in the future a design and collectors classic like the B&W Nautilus while the Ref will be more forgotten when replaced by the newer generations which might be an aspect to a Hifi collector.

 

[steve59]

Def worth a try.

 

[FrantzM]

I was considering putting those in my list as well, but at 80'000 USD/pair they are 3-4x the cost of the models he mentioned

The Beolab 50 is about $40000/pair.