B&W 800 D3 vs KEF Blade. Let's discuss.

[Descartes]

Thanks! Haha, no dog here. I told my wife that I need one room in the house for HT duty. It use to be an office and I repurpose the space. She is not really thrilled with the look of it and call's it a Circus. LOL. Yes, I'm pushing the envelope but when she sits down and watches "The Walking Dead" or some other favorite NETFLIX show, all the complaining stops. LOL.
In a "perfect world", my room would have extra 2 feet on each wall, and room treatments would be built into a false wall and mostly covered besides some diffusers. The primary speakers would be the KEF Blade 2 and LS50 meta for surrounds.

Excellent, yes i just need to acquire the Blade 2 Meta and I am done!

Did you treat the ceiling?

I found that treating the ceiling is the best investment I have ever made for improving the acoustics in my room and with that the sound!

 

[bo_knows]

Excellent, yes i just need to acquire the Blade 2 Meta and I am done!

Did you treat the ceiling?

I found that treating the ceiling is the best investment I have ever made for improving the acoustics in my room and with that the sound!

I'm glad to hear that you are experimenting with room treatments. They do make a big difference. Yes, the ceiling is treated but I would like to do more right above my head using some kind of hybrid panels (diffusor/absorber) type.
I'm still thinking about the design but have some ideas.
If your system is in a small room, sometimes fiberglass panels are very inefficient in dealing with low frequencies and different techniques need to be deployed.
Currently, I'm redesigning the room treatments used in the front top upper corner/wall of my room and so far so good.

Diaphragmal LF Absorbers (aka LMBT) damping and calculation

I'm 60% there, 2 smaller corner boxes are to be built. It's a time-consuming process... The first impression by ear is that those 3 boxes work. If I can describe the difference in what I'm hearing will be like comparing a ported bass reflex subwoofer with a sealed design. The Bass is tighter and...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Descartes]

I'm glad to hear that you are experimenting with room treatments. They do make a big difference. Yes, the ceiling is treated but I would like to do more right above my head using some kind of hybrid panels (diffusor/absorber) type.
I'm still thinking about the design but have some ideas.
If your system is in a small room, sometimes fiberglass panels are very inefficient in dealing with low frequencies and different techniques need to be deployed.
Currently, I'm redesigning the room treatments used in the front top upper corner/wall of my room and so far so good.

Diaphragmal LF Absorbers (aka LMBT) damping and calculation

I'm 60% there, 2 smaller corner boxes are to be built. It's a time-consuming process... The first impression by ear is that those 3 boxes work. If I can describe the difference in what I'm hearing will be like comparing a ported bass reflex subwoofer with a sealed design. The Bass is tighter and...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Are they GIK Acoustic panels?

 

[bo_knows]

Are they GIK Acoustic panels?

No, each piece is custom-made by me.
I didn't use fiberglass, all the insulation is eco-core.

Eco Cotton insulation acoustic panels - Acoustimac

Get your Eco Core cotton acoustic insulation from Acoustimac. Make your Eco acoustic panels for less. In stock and ready to ship

www.acoustimac.com

 

[steve59]

What is it about KEFs and B&Ws that trolls post incessant "which one?" threads about them?

B&W vs KEF has been a debate as long as I’ve been paying attention. I remember reading the reviews of the 800 matrix and R107 when they were new and way above my ability to own but going to the local shop and finding both to sound thick and dull. British sound the salesman called it, now I think it was the kenwood receivers they were driving them with.
The Blades get grief for being made of plastic(they’re not) B&W get grief for their tonal balance? The odds of a thread like this having a useful outcome are very slim. Sometimes I think I just have too much time on my hands

 

[Jeremiah Sheets]

B&W vs KEF has been a debate as long as I’ve been paying attention. I remember reading the reviews of the 800 matrix and R107 when they were new and way above my ability to own but going to the local shop and finding both to sound thick and dull.

There was a giant leap from the Matrix to the Nautilus. Many years later the Nautilus changed to the Diamond which was a marginal upgrade and for many Mastering Engineers a slight downgrade.

Matrix to Nautilus upgrade was like the Rogers LS3/5A to the KEF 101. Massive improvement.
The Nautilus to Diamond upgrade is more like the R3 to R3 Meta. Maybe an upgrade?

When it comes to comparisons of vintage B&W, skip the Matrix and start with the Nautilus.

 

[Pearljam5000]

KEF Blade for sure

 

[Purité Audio]

I was discussing B&W with an ‘industry insider’ just yesterday, he opined that many retailers/distributors were unhappy with the decline in sound quality of the latest designs, were concerned over the frequent change of ownership of the company and some electronics manufacturers who had partnered with B&W for many years were dropping them as they were concerned over sound quality.
He thought that the downturn in performance was entirely due to the use of cheaper components in an effort to maximise profits!
Keith

 

[Jeremiah Sheets]

I was discussing B&W with an ‘industry insider’ just yesterday, he opined that many retailers/distributors were unhappy with the decline in sound quality of the latest designs, were concerned over the frequent change of ownership of the company and some electronics manufacturers who had partnered with B&W for many years were dropping them as they were concerned over sound quality.
He thought that the downturn in performance was entirely due to the use of cheaper components in an effort to maximise profits!
Keith

I can’t say that I have any first hand experience with the newer speakers. But this matches with my experience of the Nautilus and Diamond. I would rather have a Nautilus speaker.

 

[Purité Audio]

From the measurements that I have seen and from users with actual personal experience @sergeauckland the older ‘matrix‘ designs measure appreciably better in fact each iteration appears to be worse, it is a very odd situation.
Keith

 

[Jeremiah Sheets]

That may be, but as demonstrated repeatedly here, subjective and objective measurements don’t always coalesce. Many of my favorite records have been mastered by Engineers that prefer the Nautilus. Are they technically better? Maybe not. My R3 is not as good as my KH 120. But I make better mixes on it regardless.

 

[ahofer]

I auditioned B&Ws in my last round of purchases and found them (and Paradigm Personas) very treble-heavy, which coalesces perfectly with the measurements in both cases.

I owned a pair of B&W (DM220, I think) bookshelf speakers in the early-mid 1980s in my college dorm room. Those I really liked. I just looked up some measurements: lo and behold, they don’t seem to have the peaky FR of the current versions:

More recent: (https://www.stereophile.com/content/bampw-800-diamond-loudspeaker-measurements)

One of the reasons I’ve become more immersed in this site is that the impressions I had listening to a variety of speakers from Wilson, KEF, B&W, Paradigm, Legacy, ATC and others is that my listening impressions - all before seeing measurements - all “coalesced” with the measurements that I found readily available on the internet. Once I began to understand directivity, I experienced similar consistency there. So I’m impressed with the relevance of speaker measurements overall.

 

[MattHooper]

I auditioned B&Ws in my last round of purchases and found them (and Paradigm Personas) very treble-heavy, which coalesces perfectly with the measurements in both cases.

I owned a pair of B&W (DM220, I think) bookshelf speakers in the early-mid 1980s in my college dorm room. Those I really liked. I just looked up some measurements: lo and behold, they don’t seem to have the peaky FR of the current versions:

View attachment 342819

More recent: (https://www.stereophile.com/content/bampw-800-diamond-loudspeaker-measurements)

View attachment 342823

One of the reasons I’ve become more immersed in this site is that the impressions I had listening to a variety of speakers from Wilson, KEF, B&W, Paradigm, Legacy, ATC and others is that my listening impressions - all before seeing measurements - all “coalesced” with the measurements that I found readily available on the internet. Once I began to understand directivity, I experienced similar consistency there. So I’m impressed with the relevance of speaker measurements overall.

Impossible! Sighted listening can’t be accurate!

;-)

 

[JustJones]

I had B&W 804N for about 8 years. I admit I enjoyed them but it’s possible the reason was the i225 Anthem Amp I used. Had this convenient treble knob I kept at the 10 -11 O'clock position.

 

[gsp1971]

In 2020, Bowers & Wilkins was acquired by Sound United LLC, which also owns Definitive Technology, Polk Audio, Denon, Marantz & Boston Acoustics. Lots of overlap there.

Since then, Sound United LLC has been trying to transform B&W into a lifestyle brand, focusing on portable speakers and headphones.

The quality of their speakers has diminished significantly.

 

[thewas]

In the last 30 years I have owned several pairs of B&W loudspeakers, the first one I even still have today as it was my first real hifi loudspeaker, since they had and have good drivers with a bit of EQ I still can enjoy them a lot even today.

 

[mglobe]

Here's a comparison of measurements of the Blade 2 Meta to the 803D3.

https://www.spinorama.org/compare.h...vendor&measurement=Estimated+In-Room+Response

 

[ahofer]

In the last 30 years I have owned several pairs of B&W loudspeakers, the first one I even still have today as it was my first real hifi loudspeaker, since they had and have good drivers with a bit of EQ I still can enjoy them a lot even today.

Yes, they are clean, so EQ can solve the showroom treble, I would guess. Still, not top-of-the-heap in directivity.

It appears that this isn't so much a quality deterioration as an active decision to have 'showroom treble' for their aging audience. It gives you that "revealing" sensation until you keep listening for a few minutes and get that "get me out of here" sensation.

 

[thewas]

Yes, they are clean, so EQ can solve the showroom treble, I would guess. Still, not top-of-the-heap in directivity.

True, that's why I kept my older B&Ws which have a smaller mid driver and steeper and lower crossovers with smoother directivity.

 

[Purité Audio]

I auditioned B&Ws in my last round of purchases and found them (and Paradigm Personas) very treble-heavy, which coalesces perfectly with the measurements in both cases.

I owned a pair of B&W (DM220, I think) bookshelf speakers in the early-mid 1980s in my college dorm room. Those I really liked. I just looked up some measurements: lo and behold, they don’t seem to have the peaky FR of the current versions:

View attachment 342819

More recent: (https://www.stereophile.com/content/bampw-800-diamond-loudspeaker-measurements)

View attachment 342823

One of the reasons I’ve become more immersed in this site is that the impressions I had listening to a variety of speakers from Wilson, KEF, B&W, Paradigm, Legacy, ATC and others is that my listening impressions - all before seeing measurements - all “coalesced” with the measurements that I found readily available on the internet. Once I began to understand directivity, I experienced similar consistency there. So I’m impressed with the relevance of speaker measurements overall.

I tried some Personas here , they looked great with their fancy fibonacci grills but the treble too much.