B&O's Beolab 90 isit the speaker that could?

[Purité Audio]

You are not listening to real unamplified music your are listening to the reproduction of that music.
Keith

 

[Thomas savage]

I heard these speakers a couple of months ago. So here are my own sighted listening impressions, which might very well be imprecise and faulty: It's obviously very good speakers. But they should be for that price, of course. In narrow mode, they painted a very precise stereo image for me. I saw the stage very clearly. Imaging with these is among the best I've experienced. But at the same time, I felt like that there was something about them that wasn't natural. It felt like good "hifi", but it didn't give me an illusion of listening to real, unamplified music. When I compared them with my acoustic memory of my own active monitors, it was as if the Beolabs had put on a lot of make-up to look perfect. While my monitors were less perfect, but still more natural and relaxed.

This might only be me, or it might be something objective. I don't know. FWIW, it gave me the same feeling I've gotten from listening to some systems which have employed room correction rather heavily. The imaging, staging and holography can be very impressive, but it introduces something into the presentation which feels strange - at least for me. I have a hunch that too much EQ can lead to artificiality in a speaker. But it's only a hunch. Would love to see some measurements on this.

We have a ' convergence ' of thought.

 

[Thomas savage]

You are not listening to real unamplified music your are listening to the reproduction of that music.
Keith

Well your listening to music Keith plain and simple, your connecting to that music in a expected or unexpected way.. Sometimes the unexpected is a nice surprise and sometimes it's not.

The rest is a problem for science and audio engineers .

 

[Purité Audio]

You are listening to a two channel 'stereo' system, and all that entails, not real music.
The Beolabs will imho be reproducing a more rendition of that file than any other speaker ( along with the Kii THREEs ) than any other speaker.
Keith

 

[oivavoi]

You are not listening to real unamplified music your are listening to the reproduction of that music.
Keith

I'm fully aware of the inherent limitations of two-channel stereo, and of the recording process which reduces something very complex (in the case of acoustic instruments and voices) to something much simpler. Stereo at home will never sound "real". But it can be more or less close.

My point was more that my current monitors have something about their tonal presentation which sounds more natural or "right" TO ME when it comes to acoustic music, than the Beolabs did at this one occasion when I got to listen to them. I'm open to the possibility that my experience in this case was colored by other factors than the sound itself. That is also the reason why I'm interested in whether there are theories or measurements which can back up my experience (E.g.: possible detrimental effects of heavy eq on the drivers, diffraction, coherence of so many drivers, etc). It's absolutely possible that my impressions were wrong.

 

[Thomas savage]

You are listening to a two channel 'stereo' system, and all that entails, not real music.
The Beolabs will imho be reproducing a more rendition of that file than any other speaker ( along with the Kii THREEs ) than any other speaker.
Keith

Those are know factors so irrelevant in my mind. Music is recorded and processed in a 'known' environment, all challenges and mitigating factors are considered during this process.

The limiting factor is loudness dynamic contrast and that's a factor not solved by dsp or fancy marketing speak.

 

[Thomas savage]

I'm fully aware of the inherent limitations of two-channel stereo, and of the recording process which reduces something very complex (in the case of acoustic instruments and voices) to something much simpler. Stereo at home will never sound "real". But it can be more or less close.

My point was more that my current monitors have something about their tonal presentation which sounds more natural or "right" TO ME when it comes to acoustic music, than the Beolabs did at this one occasion when I got to listen to them. I'm open to the possibility that my experience in this case was colored by other factors than the sound itself. That is also the reason why I'm interested in whether there are theories or measurements which can back up my experience on this occasion. (E.g.: possible detrimental effects of heavy eq on the drivers, diffraction, coherence of so many drivers, etc)

It's ok just to not like something.. No other validation is needed unless you attempt to extrapolate a 'truism ' from ones subjective impressions.. ( your not doing that and have been very carful not to)

 

[Purité Audio]

I'm fully aware of the inherent limitations of two-channel stereo, and of the recording process which reduces something very complex (in the case of acoustic instruments and voices) to something much simpler. Stereo at home will never sound "real". But it can be more or less close.

My point was more that my current monitors have something about their tonal presentation which sounds more natural or "right" TO ME when it comes to acoustic music, than the Beolabs did at this one occasion when I got to listen to them. I'm open to the possibility that my experience in this case was colored by other factors than the sound itself. That is also the reason why I'm interested in whether there are theories or measurements which can back up my experience (E.g.: possible detrimental effects of heavy eq on the drivers, diffraction, coherence of so many drivers, etc). It's possible that my impressions were not very precise.

Yes you would have to hear the Beolabs at home, the Kii THREE use similar tech, compared to other active monitors we have here , the Kii's simply reduce the input from the room you hear more of what is on the record.
Everything else sounds a bit 'thrummy' in comparison.
Keith

 

[Thomas savage]

Yes you would have to hear the Beolabs at home, the Kii THREE use similar tech, compared to other active monitors we have here , the Kii's simply reduce the input from the room you hear more of what is on the record.
Everything else sounds a bit 'thrummy' in comparison.
Keith

Well, no as both the kii and beolab mitigate the room so they can be faithfully auditioned anywhere..

 

[Purité Audio]

But the other leakers won't.
Keith

 

[oivavoi]

I've yet to hear the Kiis. I've heard the Grimm LS1 though, also designed by Bruno Putzeys. They sounded spectacular to me.

 

[Purité Audio]

I agree we have those too they are super loudspeakers .
What do you use at the moment?
Keith

 

[oivavoi]

I'm curious: how would you describe the differences between the LS1 and the Kiis?

Now I'm using the active monitors DM10 from AVI, crossed over using minidsp at 100 hz to two subwoofers from Ken Kreisel. So essentially a three-way. Absolutely fantastic in the near-field, but imperfect in the mid- and far-field IMO, probably due to the power response and dispersion pattern.

 

[Purité Audio]

I would say that the LS1's reacted less with the room than any other loudspeaker I had heard here until the Kii's arrived.
It seems to me that the Kii's are the logical progression to the LS1's.
Keith

 

[Thomas savage]

I would say that the LS1's reacted less with the room than any other loudspeaker I had heard here until the Kii's arrived.
It seems to me that the Kii's are the logical progression to the LS1's.
Keith

Why?

 

[RayDunzl]

the Kii's simply reduce the input from the room you hear more of what is on the record.

That's what I think I get and have posted here with my dipoles vs the wide-dispersion model, finding about a 10 decibel advantage if I'm actually measuring what I think I'm hearing.

---

Here's a nice page for those that can't get enough Beolab 90.

• http://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/bo-tech/

This article describes the '90 software vapors as of last July or so. I'm surprised it hasn't been updated since then (assuming an update has been released, maybe it hasn't)

• http://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2016/06/28/beolab-90-released-features/

 

[Purité Audio]

You have found a way to stop half the output coming out of the back?
Keith

 

[RayDunzl]

You have found a way to stop half the output coming out of the back?

Why would I want to?

 

[Sal1950]

The limiting factor is loudness dynamic contrast and that's a factor not solved by dsp or fancy marketing speak.

IME, It's in this area (plus inner detail) that good horn designs make all else sound constrained and canned.

 

[watchnerd]

IME, It's in this area (plus inner detail) that good horn designs make all else sound constrained and canned.

Do you have horns?