Børresen speakers

[smowry]

In 2009 one sees this published in Voice Coil magazine.

Then in 2019 a US Patent Application was filed claiming that the following is an invention.

Yes you are correct the two motor assemblies are not the "same" but the difference is insignificant and does not constitute an invention. Furthermore Borresen claimed that in 2019 the Prior Art for an Ironless Motor Assembly was as shown below.

When in fact my disclosed invention shown above was the Prior Art for Ironless Motor Assemblies after 2009. Additionally, no reference was given to my disclosure within Borresen's Application. Borresen's assembly is 'a natural and straightforward progression of existing engineering design methods' at best (Sunfire vs. API). So is it your claim that Borresen is an ethical Engineer and he should be supported by the loudspeaker community and Steve Mowry is the bad guy? How can anyone be so blind as to not see the technical plagiarism of Michael Borresen. Why don't you stop supporting Michael The Snake Borresen? He is an embarrassment to the Loudspeaker Industry and by association so are you, Snickers-is!

 

[Mart68]

They had one of the best sounding rooms at Axpona back in April. However, I didn’t realize the cables were so expensive but the sound was really good especially with the new subs they debuted.

Their business model could be questioned value wise but the sound quality was top notch. How anyone could say that room was poor sounding is beyond my comprehension. Of course I’d never buy any of their products but it’s because I only get high quality but high value gear. I’m unwilling to buy / unable to afford the ultra high end gear.

You have to bear in mind that at shows exhibitors usually play a very safe musical selection designed to show the product in the best light.

Some will take requests but not all. Even very poor speakers will sound good with a simple, showcase recording - light jazz, girl with guitar.

I don't personally think Borresen speakers are a sonic disaster just that, like many high end speakers, they are a poor value proposition.

 

[olieb]

I don't personally think Borresen speakers are a sonic disaster just that, like many high end speakers, they are a poor value proposition.

This comes pretty close to a sonic disaster IMO.

Børresen X3 Floorstanding Speaker Review

Børresen X3 Floorstanding

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

 

[smowry]

To criticize (verb): To indicate the faults of (someone or something) in a disapproving way. (Oxford)

To attack (verb): To take aggressive action against a place or enemy forces with weapons or armed force, typically in a battle or war. (Oxford)

Someone does not know how to speak correctly. Yes, I was critical of the USPTO; however, I did not attack anyone. I am a US tax payer and I have the right and privilege to criticize the USPTO. My political position is to defund the USPTO.

My posts are clearly not off topic, "Borresen Speakers". US10993035 is Borresen Speakers' one and only Patent Grant.

The Borresen Loudspeakers that utilizes Steve Mowry's Almost Air Core motor topology retail for ~US$500,000 per pair.

 

[Mart68]

This comes pretty close to a sonic disaster IMO.
View attachment 468509

Børresen X3 Floorstanding Speaker Review

Børresen X3 Floorstanding

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Looks bad yes. In the real world probably not so much especially with careful music selection such as used in a show demo.

Hence my semi-rhetorical question in the Zu speaker thread 'How bad does a speaker need to be before it's truly unlistenable?'

The answer is 'a lot worse than that.' Note that Erin was not that keen but he didn't totally damn them.

 

[Subwaffler]

Theres a review of some Borrensen standmounters in this month's Hi-Fi News magazine

Judging by the measurements Mr Borrensen still has no idea how to design a crossover. The first review i read of one of his products was a similar small Raidho speaker years ago when he still worked for them and the tweeter level was some 4dB higher than the woofer's. Cant remember who reviewed it but even they said it was a promising speaker ruined by basic tuning errors!

 

[Purité Audio]

Children should be given transparent loudspeakers in school, actually it’s not the young they have access to well designed transparent yet inexpensive transducers, it’s the old codgers.
Keith

 

[MattHooper]

Theres a review of some Borrensen standmounters in this month's Hi-Fi News magazine

Judging by the measurements Mr Borrensen still has no idea how to design a crossover. The first review i read of one of his products was a similar small Raidho speaker years ago when he still worked for them and the tweeter level was some 4dB higher than the woofer's. Cant remember who reviewed it but even they said it was a promising speaker ruined by basic tuning errors!

Any link to the review or measurements?
Thanks.

 

[Dialectic]

I don't know why we're still discussing this manufacturer. Their speakers, like Raidho's, are horrible. The tweeter looks cool, and that is where the virtues end.

 

[Snickers-is]

View attachment 468504

Yes you are correct the two motor assemblies are not the "same" but the difference is insignificant and does not constitute an invention.

I explained to you that what they have NOT patented is an ironless motor, and what they HAVE patented is the use of assembly features when assembling an ironless motor with oposing magnets. No 26 is what the patent is about, not the idea of using oposing magnets. That is neither their or your invention. Period.

To criticize (verb): To indicate the faults of (someone or something) in a disapproving way. (Oxford)

To attack (verb): To take aggressive action against a place or enemy forces with weapons or armed force, typically in a battle or war. (Oxford)

Someone does not know how to speak correctly. Yes, I was critical of the USPTO; however, I did not attack anyone.

Oxford dictionary also has 21 references to verbal attack. Just in case you would prefer to appear more informed, here is a link:

Oxford English Dictionary

The OED is the definitive record of the English language, featuring 600,000 words, 3 million quotations, and over 1,000 years of English.

www.oed.com

I did not attack anyone.

No, sure, you are so on the point and factual...

He is an embarrassment to the Loudspeaker Industry and by association so are you, Snickers-is!

Just being factual, right?

I am a US tax payer and I have the right and privilege to criticize the USPTO. My political position is to defund the USPTO.

So an international audio forum is the correct place to complain about how your tax money are spent? However, it appears that none of your tax money are used to fund USPTO: https://www.uspto.gov/about-us/performance-and-planning/budget-and-financial-information

 

[smowry]

US10993035 makes 17 claims and not one relate to the use of assembly features when assembling an ironless motor with opposing magnets. All 17 claims relate to the ironless motor topologies. There is no claim #26. The patent fee is determined by the number of claims. The higher the number of claims the higher the patent fee. What is Patented is defined by the claims.

 

[Snickers-is]

A speaker unit according to claim 16, further comprising:a chassis, wherein said magnet system is fixed to saidchassis:wherein said diaphragm is mechanically coupled to saidchassis: andwherein said diaphragm at a distance from said outerperimeter is mechanically coupled to said coil(s).

If we read a patent the way you do, they also have patented the use of a diaphragm with a suspension, coil and chassis the way almost all drivers are made.

Reference to no 26 can be found here:

It is described as follows:

Mounting guides 26 have been provided during theassembly of the elements making up the magnet system

Everything else will be prior art without that single detail.

EDIT: It is pretty obvious that this patent is absolutely worthless. However, it does contribute to financing USPTO and other patent offices. Here is an interesting and very confusing claim from the original patent:

Magnetsystem (100) ifølge et hvilket som helst af kravene 1 - 13, hvor den maksimaleudstrækning, i en retning (X), som er vinkelret på retningen for den magnetiske polaritet (Y)for magneterne, af en eller flere af den første, indre ringformede magnet (6), den anden, indreringformede magnet (10); den første, ydre ringformede magnet (8), den anden, ydreringformede magnet (12); det første, indre ringformede polstykke (16) og/eller det første, ydreringformede polstykke (18) uafhængigt er udvalgt fra intervallerne: 0,1 - 30 cm, såsom 0,2 -29 cm, f.eks. 0,4-28 cm, såsom 0,6 - 27 cm, såsom 0,7- 26 cm, f.eks. 0,8 - 25 cm, såsom0,9-24 cm, f.eks.1,0- 23 cm, såsom 1,5 – 22 cm, såsom 2-21 cm, f.eks. 3 - 20 cm, såsom4-19 cm, for eksempel 5- 18 cm eller 6 - 17 cm, f.eks. 7- 16 cm, såsom 8 - 15 cm, foreksempel 9- 14 cm, såsom 10 – 13 cm eller 11- 12 cm.

Google Translate:

A magnet system (100) according to any one of claims 1-13, wherein the maximum extent, in a direction (X) perpendicular to the direction of magnetic polarity (Y) of the magnets, of one or more of the first inner annular magnet (6), the second inner annular magnet (10); the first outer annular magnet (8), the second outer annular magnet (12); the first inner annular pole piece (16) and/or the first outer annular pole piece (18) is independently selected from the ranges: 0.1-30 cm, such as 0.2-29 cm, e.g. 0.4-28 cm, such as 0.6-27 cm, such as 0.7-26 cm, e.g. 0.8 - 25 cm, such as
0.9-24 cm, e.g. 1.0-23 cm, such as 1.5-22 cm, such as 2-21 cm, e.g. 3 - 20 cm, such as
4-19 cm, for example 5-18 cm or 6-17 cm, e.g. 7-16 cm, such as 8-15 cm, for
example 9-14 cm, such as 10-13 cm or 11-12 cm.

Good look getting that to make any sense...

 

[eddantes]

I believe this is the reason for the lack of interest... at any price.

 

[Ktacos]

Looks bad yes. In the real world probably not so much especially with careful music selection such as used in a show demo.

What do you mean real world? Klippel measurements are the real world response. They are reality. Doesn't just look bad, sounds bad too.

 

[IngMishael]

Looks bad yes. In the real world probably not so much especially with careful music selection such as used in a show demo.

Hence my semi-rhetorical question in the Zu speaker thread 'How bad does a speaker need to be before it's truly unlistenable?'

The answer is 'a lot worse than that.' Note that Erin was not that keen but he didn't totally damn them.

I made the error of hearing these speakers after listening to the Lyngdorf active speakers and the MoFi Sourcepoint 888 (which I later ordered) at Axpona 2024.

The same X3 that made its way to Erin's place. I may not know enough subjective blabber, but what I heard was off-putting enough to more or less many me mad that people were buying these terribly engineered speakers.

So yeah, real world actually sounded more terrible to my ears. Measurements actually looked far better than what I heard in the demo room

 

[Lsc]

You have to bear in mind that at shows exhibitors usually play a very safe musical selection designed to show the product in the best light.

Some will take requests but not all. Even very poor speakers will sound good with a simple, showcase recording - light jazz, girl with guitar.

I don't personally think Borresen speakers are a sonic disaster just that, like many high end speakers, they are a poor value proposition.

They sounded so good I visited the room twice on Saturday and went back on Sunday. This is not a case of having demo songs setup to make that room sound good…that room sounded amazing especially with their new bass module/subs.

Definitely better than what I have at home but my system is fraction of the price of that room. If anyone walked out of that room and thought that music sounded bad, I’d think they are hard of hearing.

 

[Mart68]

What do you mean real world? Klippel measurements are the real world response. They are reality. Doesn't just look bad, sounds bad too.

So if you had a listen to them before seeing that FR you think you'd be running for the door to get away from the hideousness? A speaker's got to measure a lot worse than that before it gets to that stage.

Probably you'd just occasionally think 'That didn't seem quite right.' Depending on the programme.

 

[PristineSound]

Heard them at a show too, mid-bass is heavy, but not boomy. Tonal balance was definitely off, you can always blame all bass problems on the room without the spin, so you don't know if the problem is the room or not.

However, the craftsmanship does seem good.

In the end, Erin's review didn't do it any good.

 

[Ktacos]

So if you had a listen to them before seeing that FR you think you'd be running for the door to get away from the hideousness?

I would most likely find the speaker to be very poor almost immediately. I'm a mix engineer/musician/speaker designer. I spend a lot of time mixing music and analyzing speakers for filter development. I work on neutral speakers and my design goals tend to favor the same neutrality. Typically any deviation from that is very obvious to me. This speaker in question exhibits major deviations, an enter lower mid octave is just resonance, the woofer to tweeters response and DI shows a flawed xover, and the speaker has a lot of decay issues. Yeah you better believe I would hate this speaker and know it had major problems the second it made noise.

 

[Digital_Thor]

Elevating the tweeter, to boast about so-called "extra detail" is sadly far too common... Zingali does it too
No exotic driver material or design, can somehow fix an overall bad design.
https://www.avmagazine.it/articoli/audio/1967/supertest-zingali-zero-6m_index.html