Azimuth Adjustment Methods

[Arno Fennix]

After many years setting up cartridges with all tools possible there is still a thought that puzzles me and perhaps others got some clear views on this. Tried to put some background in a drawing.
The first image shows the ideal world where the tip, cantilever and coils (MC) are perfectly aligned.

The second one shows the good old mirror trick with a possible real-life misalignment between tip and the rest (exaggerated). In this case the mechanical fit between tip and groove can be perfect whereas the coil (electrical) is off the optimum to achieve the best channel separation / cross talk.

The third image shows the "solution" with respect to the mirror problem and here the azimuth is optimized towards the optimal channel separation/crosstalk(/phase), done via smarter tools as Dr. Feickert Adjust+, Fozgo-meter, oscilloscope,

The third approach seems to be ideal but did we not care about having the tip at the wrong angle in the groove? Perhaps not the biggest concern for big spherical tips but it might be different for the fancy modern sharp cut tips?

Food for thought, anyone to share best reasoning, background, facts, data, experiences?

 

[Arno Fennix]

I know, what a question...

 

[watchnerd]

I've tried the mirror approach.

I can't see things well enough to do a good job, so now I no longer use that method.

These days, I use either the Puffin or an oscilloscope.

After all, it's the electrical alignment that really matters, anyway.

 

[watchnerd]

The third approach seems to be ideal but did we not care about having the tip at the wrong angle in the groove? Perhaps not the biggest concern for big spherical tips but it might be different for the fancy modern sharp cut tips?

I don't use spherical carts.

I care about the electrical alignment most because that's the signal.

If that means the cartridge isn't perfectly perpendicular, that doesn't bother me.

The forces aren't equal, anyway, due to skating.

Will that lead to more stylus wear? Maybe. But styli wear out over time no matter what.

 

[Orfanik]

The forces aren't equal, anyway, due to skating.

This problem is solved with tangential tone arms

 

[Arno Fennix]

Probably is something we'll have to live with and go for the better cartridges with an almost perfect coil/cantilever/tip alignment.
For me I also stick with the electrical approach (Dr Feickert Adjust+).
Thinking of uni-pivot tone-arms, it still makes be wonder how and why these work. With these it is not the easiest to keep the right azimuth during playing I expect since the cartridge is even "allowed" to tilt in the Azimuth direction. Having said that, probably a tip that is at the "wrong" angle in the groove might not be dramatic and electrical azimuth results in the maximum channel separation and lowest X-talk.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Ironically it is the expensive hand made cartridges which are most likely to have mechanical or electrical misalignment.
Companies like Ortofon and Audio Technica can probably make even less expensive cartridges pretty accurate because of their ability to amortise tooling over many products.

 

[Arno Fennix]

Ironically it is the expensive hand made cartridges which are most likely to have mechanical or electrical misalignment.
Companies like Ortofon and Audio Technica can probably make even less expensive cartridges pretty accurate because of their ability to amortise tooling over many products.

I expect you're right about that..

 

[Thomas_A]

Perhaps you can get any tips here.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zw4w3w4jjfg29fr/Azimuth adjustment.pdf?dl=0

Basically - you should set the physical azimuth and from there do just some very tiny adjustments. Using the "ideal" test record. Which should be one with the lowest crosstalk L-R/R-L.

 

[watchnerd]

This problem is solved with tangential tone arms

I'll take anti-skate issues over the mechanical issues that seem to plague many tangential arms.

 

[watchnerd]

Ironically it is the expensive hand made cartridges which are most likely to have mechanical or electrical misalignment.
Companies like Ortofon and Audio Technica can probably make even less expensive cartridges pretty accurate because of their ability to amortise tooling over many products.

5 out of my 7 cartridges are Audio Technica, 1 out of 7 is an Ortofon, for this reason.

The stragglers are Denon and Nagaoka.

 

[Frank Dernie]

The stragglers are Denon and Nagoaka.

Both of which probably have accurate tooling too.
The hanbd made cartridges peobably vary considerably and get graded after manufacture and "appropriate" price tag applied.
Interestingly I notice in the few Koetsu measurements I have seen (I have only heard the Rosewood, about 40 years ago in a system I didn't know but the system was superb fwiw) the less expensive one had the most even FR and the most expensive started rolling off around 1kHz, so probably not graded by flatness of FR.

 

[Arno Fennix]

Perhaps you can get any tips here.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zw4w3w4jjfg29fr/Azimuth adjustment.pdf?dl=0

Basically - you should set the physical azimuth and from there do just some very tiny adjustments. Using the "ideal" test record. Which should be one with the lowest crosstalk L-R/R-L.

Thanks for the link

 

[Arno Fennix]

5 out of my 7 cartridges are Audio Technica, 1 out of 7 is an Ortofon, for this reason.

The stragglers are Denon and Nagaoka.

Makes sense to stick to the manufacturers with a long positive track record and experience. On the other side, it is worth checking the "new breeds" as well. In some cases a new brand can be owned by ex-employees of the bigger brands, hence the skills might be on=board.
Large volume production by big brands probably will result in the better typical quality (azimuth included).

 

[watchnerd]

Makes sense to stick to the manufacturers with a long positive track record and experience. On the other side, it is worth checking the "new breeds" as well. In some cases a new brand can be owned by ex-employees of the bigger brands, hence the skills might be on=board.
Large volume production by big brands probably will result in the better typical quality (azimuth included).

The brands I have now are after I tried various new breeds and kicked them out of my collection.

 

[watchnerd]

After many years setting up cartridges with all tools possible there is still a thought that puzzles me and perhaps others got some clear views on this. Tried to put some background in a drawing.
The first image shows the ideal world where the tip, cantilever and coils (MC) are perfectly aligned.

The second one shows the good old mirror trick with a possible real-life misalignment between tip and the rest (exaggerated). In this case the mechanical fit between tip and groove can be perfect whereas the coil (electrical) is off the optimum to achieve the best channel separation / cross talk.

The third image shows the "solution" with respect to the mirror problem and here the azimuth is optimized towards the optimal channel separation/crosstalk(/phase), done via smarter tools as Dr. Feickert Adjust+, Fozgo-meter, oscilloscope,

The third approach seems to be ideal but did we not care about having the tip at the wrong angle in the groove? Perhaps not the biggest concern for big spherical tips but it might be different for the fancy modern sharp cut tips?

Food for thought, anyone to share best reasoning, background, facts, data, experiences?View attachment 100842

So playing around with the right-most option more.

I'm starting to wonder if optimizing for electrical azimuth has a negative impact on tracking and record wear if the cart isn't so perpendicular to the record...?

 

[dennis h]

Just to muddy up things for every one, here is the first of three parts on azimuth...

http://korfaudio.com/blog36

enjoy