• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

AVS Thread: Does anyone base there [sic] buys off audiosciencereview?

Yameyo

Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2021
Messages
44
Likes
18
I bought the WXA50 based on Amir's review, and it's how I'll be choosing my next speakers.
 

dscottj

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2021
Messages
47
Likes
70
I got my Matrix Element M based on Amir's X and I reviews. Very happy with it!
 

Rick63

Active Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Messages
182
Likes
386
Location
Upstate NY
I purchased a Topping L30 headphone amp in late 2020 largely based on the review here. Unfortunately about a week after it arrived the reports of the ESD issue began to emerge. I didn't wish to risk any headphones being blown up or worse damaging my hearing so I returned it. I then tried a Schiit Magni 3 but returned it because the scratchy volume pot was/is totally unacceptable to me. Then for almost a year I just used my Fiio A5 portable headphone amp.

I bought another L30 in September 2021 and I just love it - it sounds fantastic with my headphones (AKG K371, Fiio FD3 Pro IEMs), and works excellent as a preamp for my active monitors.
 
F

freemansteve

Guest
I may not rule a particular component in, but I might well rule something out for purchase.

Just like with Amazon reviews, you pay attention to bad ones the most (albeit most reviews there are fake or written by morons, which does not apply to this site)

I tend to ignore anything involving reliability, unless the item is older or out of guarantee! "My brand new car still starts, shock horror" etc.
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2022
Messages
86
Likes
297
Location
Pacific Northwest, USA
I haven't, yet, but my next upgrade purchases (likely a power amplifier and/or speakers) will be far more informed by what I have learned here than from any subjectivist "I hear things no one has measured" reviewers.
 

Golfx

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
340
Likes
271
Location
Virginia
Yes. I switched to Class D amps because of ASR and STOPPED my purchase of a Marantz 8805 preamp and bought a Denon AVR A-110 instead and used it as a prepro.
 

mdunjic

Active Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2021
Messages
173
Likes
168
I recently, mainly out of curiosity, bought pair of AUDIOPHONICS Hypex nCore MPA-M500NC Mono Block Amplifiers, based on similar Hypex Class D NCore reviews by Amir, as an alternative to my beloved 'feed-forward' class A / AB based Quad 909 2ch power amp. No regrets so far, similar power output (I listen at 70-80db SPL at 2-3m distance, so either amp is at most 'pumping' 5W into my 87db/1w/1m sensitivity 6ohm Neat Motive 1 speakers), with no noticeable difference in sound quality, but Quad isn't best for hot summer time, as it runs fairly hot itself, while these Class D mono-blocks are, at worst, just warm-ish, mainly cool-ish. Kudos to @amirm !
 
Last edited:

tvih

Active Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2020
Messages
163
Likes
130
It's sad/funny. Many people on AVSforum and elsewhere bash ASR among other things for being basically a hostile cult. Now, on the cult thing I won't deny some here veering well into that territory - although then again those bashers tend to be a cult of their own... if nothing else then cult-like belief in their own personal omnipotence.

But for me ASR has been easily the least hostile place to discuss audio gear despite definitely not being a hardcore measurement guy by any means despite them definitely being useful, which according to the bashers should get me lynched in under five seconds over here... while they are ever eager to lynch me if I dare even mention measurements, blind tests, Topping (having happily owned a device of theirs long before ASR reviews existed), amps and DACs not being a big deal (especially compared to room/EQ/speakers) beyond an easy to reach baseline, or whatever else. They dismiss objectivity while also insulting subjective opinions/observations that don't align with theirs. Go figure. Not that people should all agree about everything, but some people just can't seem to disagree without being belittling arseholes, which then makes me act poorly in return, which I also very much hate since it gives satisfaction to those soddin' trolls. Or as I like to call 'em, arseholeists.
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2022
Messages
86
Likes
297
Location
Pacific Northwest, USA
There's just way too much elitist, magical thinking that pollutes our audiophile hobby. (Yes. I wish to reclaim the word "audiophile" away from the magic power cord/interconnect pushers and their ilk.)

And certainly I've seen a certain kind of elitist around here as well, the "you dont understand electronics properly so shut up" kind. That kind has more justification, or at least is more understandable, but regardless of that, at least here is a forum were bull excrement will get called out for what it is.
 

rwortman

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
740
Likes
683
I don’t currently own anything that has been reviewed here. It’s been a long time since a reputable company has made a bad sounding amp, preamp, or DAC. Speakers are a personal taste and mine seems to align with Paul Barton‘s. I don't think chasing another 0 to the right of the decimal point on a distortion test or another db of SINAD are worthwhile pursuits. I don’t really care how my amp, preamp, or AVR rank in the ASR hall of fame. They sound good to me and that’s my prime requirement. What Amir does here is review audio equipment. Nothing more or less than Stereophile or Sound and Vision. Test results and some listening impressions. His tastes are no more or less likely to align with mine than any other audio reviewer. Buying anything solely based on a reviewer’s opinion seems foolish to me. I did this once with a turntable and it was the worst POS audio component I have ever owned.

One of the silliest things in the audiophile world that I see frequently on discussion sites is a variation of this: “I am considering buying XXX brand’s new audio gadget. I tried one and it sounds great. However, I can’t find a review of it anywhere. I guess I’ll have to wait”. It’s not enough that I like it. I can’t buy it until some self appointed expert likes it too. I’ve gotten occasional great deals on things because reviewers panned them based on things I didn’t care about.
 
Last edited:

NiagaraPete

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 23, 2021
Messages
2,185
Likes
1,954
Location
Canada
I SOLD my Genelecs after hearing Amir bash their amplification (btw we both love their products). It led my to buy a beefy amp and spend way more on speakers, thanks Amir!
Like when ever?
 

mdunjic

Active Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2021
Messages
173
Likes
168
I don’t currently own anything that has been reviewed here. It’s been a long time since a reputable company has made a bad sounding amp, preamp, or DAC. Speakers are a personal taste and mine seems to align with Paul Barton‘s. I don't think chasing another 0 to the right of the decimal point on a distortion test or another db of SINAD are worthwhile pursuits. I don’t really care how my amp, preamp, or AVR rank in the ASR hall of fame. They sound good to me and that’s my prime requirement. What Amir does here is review audio equipment. Nothing more or less than Stereophile or Sound and Vision. Test results and some listening impressions. His tastes are no more or less likely to align with mine than any other audio reviewer. Buying anything solely based on a reviewer’s opinion seems foolish to me. I did this once with a turntable and it was the worst POS audio component I have ever owned.

One of the silliest things in the audiophile world that I see frequently on discussion sites is a variation of this: “I am considering buying XXX brand’s new audio gadget. I tried one and it sounds great. However, I can’t find a review of it anywhere. I guess I’ll have to wait”. It’s not enough that I like it. I can’t buy it until some self appointed expert likes it too. I’ve gotten occasional great deals on things because reviewers panned them based on things I didn’t care about.
Great measurements almost always mean that engineering team paid careful attention to best electronics engineering practices … and that definitely has its own value. Of course individual consumer tastes are important and if someone doesn’t care about measurements when choosing piece of audio equipment then that’s ok too.
 

rwortman

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
740
Likes
683
Great measurements almost always mean that engineering team paid careful attention to best electronics engineering practices … and that definitely has its own value. Of course individual consumer tastes are important and if someone doesn’t care about measurements when choosing piece of audio equipment then that’s ok too.
There is more to best engineering practices than optimizing a certain set of measurements and there is even more in total product design. Some companies have decided to differentiate themselves with ultra low noise and distortion test numbers. This doesn’t mean other engineering teams couldn’t do it. It may mean that they had a threshold of what they thought was audible and when they achieved that, they worked on other things. For example, every solid state amp or preamp I looked at on Mcintosh’s site has a THD spec of .005%. They seem to have decided that is good enough. Time and money spent reducing noise or distortion further and further below audibility is wasted unless you have decided that’s the thing you want to be your claim to fame in the market.

I care about measurements. The engineer in me demands it. On the other hand, only so much. My current Rotel stereo amp has an a weighted S/N ratio of 116db. The THD spec is .03%. That makes for a pretty ugly SiNAD. In my view .03% harmonic distortion is inaudible. The noise is inaudible too so it is transparent. It’s not the king of the SiNAD contest but it puts out twice the power of an AHB2 and cost me half the money.
 

dlaloum

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 4, 2021
Messages
3,092
Likes
2,353
There is more to best engineering practices than optimizing a certain set of measurements and there is even more in total product design. Some companies have decided to differentiate themselves with ultra low noise and distortion test numbers. This doesn’t mean other engineering teams couldn’t do it. It may mean that they had a threshold of what they thought was audible and when they achieved that, they worked on other things. For example, every solid state amp or preamp I looked at on Mcintosh’s site has a THD spec of .005%. They seem to have decided that is good enough. Time and money spent reducing noise or distortion further and further below audibility is wasted unless you have decided that’s the thing you want to be your claim to fame in the market.

I care about measurements. The engineer in me demands it. On the other hand, only so much. My current Rotel stereo amp has an a weighted S/N ratio of 116db. The THD spec is .03%. That makes for a pretty ugly SiNAD. In my view .03% harmonic distortion is inaudible. The noise is inaudible too so it is transparent. It’s not the king of the SiNAD contest but it puts out twice the power of an AHB2 and cost me half the money.
I agree....

My initial response to the SINAD charts here was - bigger is better.... but then I reviewed what SINAD meant, in the context of well regarded amplifiers and preamps I have past experience with....

In that context a SINAD of over 70db is within the acceptable range - and anything beyond that is a bonus....
I would look askance at something with a SINAD under 70db.

Once you get over that level of SINAD, other issues can come to the fore and become more important - eg: power and current capabilities of amps

Unless we have limitless budgets (few of us do!) - you need to triage the measured aspects, otherwise you can get a setup where one aspect measures astoundingly well, but the whole system sounds like rubbish. (eg: an amplifier with superb SINAD, but insufficient current capability to drive your speakers!)

The ASR reviews are valuable as they provide a multifaceted set of measurements - which can be relied on when looking for and comparing different components.... it's not just about the SINAD chart.
 

rwortman

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
740
Likes
683
In that context a SINAD of over 70db is within the acceptable range - and anything beyond that is a bonus....
I would look askance at something with a SINAD under 70db.
The problem (as others here have stated) is that SiNAD combines distortion and noise into a single number. Harmonics at -60db you probably can‘t hear. Noise at -70 is clearly audible and a bit irritating. The bane of vinyl and tape.
 

dlaloum

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 4, 2021
Messages
3,092
Likes
2,353
The problem (as others here have stated) is that SiNAD combines distortion and noise into a single number. Harmonics at -60db you probably can‘t hear. Noise at -70 is clearly audible and a bit irritating. The bane of vinyl and tape.

Yes.... looking at SNR separately is just as important as looking at THD...

And once you get those individually at an acceptable level - then we can move on to other factors.

And where a DAC may not have real Dynamic Range beyond its SNR - any analogue circuitry may well have resolution beyond the SNR - tape and vinyl being prime examples - so in the old world techs you look at things differently to the new world techs....

I try to get a dynamic range of circa 95db... but if I am making recordings I try for more - as much more as I can get - before downmixing and adjusting the final SNR/DNR
 

Golfx

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
340
Likes
271
Location
Virginia
As stated above the math of bench measurements allows readers to compare and contrast different components against like-kind products. It is an essential value for those of us who no longer have access to large high-quality audio show rooms with semi-honest salesmen.
 
OP
RichB

RichB

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
1,946
Likes
2,611
Location
Massachusetts
There is more to best engineering practices than optimizing a certain set of measurements and there is even more in total product design. Some companies have decided to differentiate themselves with ultra low noise and distortion test numbers. This doesn’t mean other engineering teams couldn’t do it. It may mean that they had a threshold of what they thought was audible and when they achieved that, they worked on other things. For example, every solid state amp or preamp I looked at on Mcintosh’s site has a THD spec of .005%. They seem to have decided that is good enough. Time and money spent reducing noise or distortion further and further below audibility is wasted unless you have decided that’s the thing you want to be your claim to fame in the market.

I care about measurements. The engineer in me demands it. On the other hand, only so much. My current Rotel stereo amp has an a weighted S/N ratio of 116db. The THD spec is .03%. That makes for a pretty ugly SiNAD. In my view .03% harmonic distortion is inaudible. The noise is inaudible too so it is transparent. It’s not the king of the SiNAD contest but it puts out twice the power of an AHB2 and cost me half the money.

No doubt that each manufacturer balances distortion, price, power, reliability, aesthetics, etc.
ASR has shown that some very expensive gear has been shown to be quite poor.
If anything, this site elevates products that are both affordable and perform well.

- Rich
 

gitesh

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2024
Messages
10
Likes
1
I recently bought some. 706 S2. :)
Hello. I have ordered bowers 706 s2 without demo as demo is not possible where I live . I will be pairing them with my old Harman Kardon 3380 stereo receiver. I have heard reviews that these speakers sound bright / harsh so one cannot listen for too long ? Did you have to do any tonal adjustments to 706 s2 ?
 
Top Bottom