AVR vs Stereo amp for music

[tineared]

My curiosity is what prompted me to start the thread. I don't know any better - I can only go on what others tell me. Knowing this forum is more technical and science-minded, I thought it would be a good idea to post the question here.

I don't have an engineering background or anything. But what I'm gathering is that... stereo amps can technically outperform AVR's on the bench, but whether it's audible is a kettle of fish. Most here are saying probably no audible difference.

Do you a more detailed perspective on the topic you could share?

Your understanding is about right. Generally speaking, stereo rigs will have higher fidelity than surround sound systems.
Whether you are able to hear the difference will depend on the particular pieces of equipment being compared along with your ability to listen critically.
Anyone who says different is just "stupid and wrong"

 

[Oddball]

Your understanding is about right. Generally speaking, stereo rigs will have higher fidelity than surround sound systems.
Whether you are able to hear the difference will depend on the particular pieces of equipment being compared along with your ability to listen critically.
Anyone who says different is just "stupid and wrong"

Would not say that stupid and wrong is the best choice of words, even if used before.

Audio is extremely complex matter, and one just needs time to dive in. Interaction between the gear, room, our preferences, DSP options, including SPL and bass "volume" and "nature" is honestly daunting for even the most advanced members.

What I can say from my 45 years journey in audio is that I learned a lot, but my favorite piece of gear remains my first one. An old polish turntable with a built in amp and 4W speakers. Probably had SINAD of 0 (aka equal noise to signal ratio), but was just awesome as it did introduce me to music. I do find myself enjoying my current system that is by most standards great, but often I can't help myself running graphs and math when "critically listening". So I try not to.

 

[krabapple]

My curiosity is what prompted me to start the thread. I don't know any better - I can only go on what others tell me. Knowing this forum is more technical and science-minded, I thought it would be a good idea to post the question here.

I don't have an engineering background or anything. But what I'm gathering is that... stereo amps can technically outperform AVR's on the bench, but whether it's audible is a kettle of fish. Most here are saying probably no audible difference.

Do you a more detailed perspective on the topic you could share?

This entire website, Audio Science Review, is a more detailed perspective on it.

Perhaps start with our host Amir's videos on evaluating audio and audible difference.

 

[krabapple]

I don’t think I did.

I didn’t say that I need a balance control either.

The only thing I wanted to say is that a real balance control knob is something I personally would want to see on a stereo amp. Is that cool?

I want a device that can calibrate ('balance') all channels.

Wait, I have that...it's my AVR.

 

[Dimitrov]

This entire website, Audio Science Review, is a more detailed perspective on it.

Perhaps start with our host Amir's videos on evaluating audio and audible difference.

Are you always so blunt? Can you not offer your own perspective? Just try communicating like a normal person. Please.

 

[voodooless]

Are you always so blunt? Can you not offer your own perspective? Just try communicating like a normal person. Please.

He directed you to a perfect fine place to start, so what more do you want?

As to being blunt.. yeah, this is a forum with many members that are a bunch of engineering and science nutjobs that happen to have a soft spot for audio… they tend to be blunt at times. Give it a bit, and it will grow on you, eventually you may even appreciate it

 

[Dimitrov]

He directed you to a perfect fine place to start, so what more do you want?

I asked for his perspective since he responded to me. What's wrong with asking?

As to being blunt.. yeah, this is a forum with many members that are a bunch of engineering and science nutjobs that happen to have a soft spot for audio… they tend to be blunt at times. Give it a bit, and it will grow on you, eventually you may even appreciate it

Right, and I ask someone for their opinion and they just say "search the forum", that clearly isn't helpful. You know it's not helpful. Obviously I could spend hundreds of hours searching the forum. But since I started the thread and since I asked the question, is it so hard to just ... answer a question?

If most of the answers can be found in previous threads then why should anyone start a new thread? Why bother discussing anything at all, if the information is already buried on the forum?

 

[voodooless]

Right, and I ask someone for their opinion and they just say "search the forum", that clearly it that isn't helpful. You know it's not helpful.

But that’s not the only thing he said, is it?

If most of the answers can be found in previous threads then why should anyone start a new thread? Why bother discussing anything at all, if the information is already buried on the forum?

Yes, most of these questions have been discussed multiple times in multiple topics. The forum even suggested you topics that might contain a similar content if you create a topic.

By keeping things centralized, you also centralize knowledge and therefore make it easier to find knowledge. So indeed, asking the same things over and over in separate threads is counter productive and confusing. Above all it makes it harder for beginners to find any knowledge at all. Sadly this is an inherent issue with these kind of forums, so we’ll just have to deal with that.

So @krabapple ‘s suggestion to start with the videos is actually a very sensible starting point.

 

[krabapple]

Are you always so blunt?

Often , yes, about well-worn topics like this.

Can you not offer your own perspective? Just try communicating like a normal person. Please.

I've given you good advice. Why don't you take it? My perspective should be quite clear already, from it.

 

[Dimitrov]

Often , yes, about well-worn topics like this.



I've given you good advice. Why don't you take it? My perspective should be quite clear already, from it.

I didn’t realize asking a follow‑up question was equivalent to rejecting your advice. You pointed me to a set of videos which I'll watch when I have time to do so.

The implication that I should simply adopt your perspective because you’ve pointed me to a particular source is the opposite of helpful. If your perspective is ‘measurements are all that matter and ASR is the final word,’ then say that. But don’t frame it as obvious truth and then act surprised when someone wants to discuss it rather than passively absorb it.

So to be clear: I’m interested in the reasoning behind your take on stereo vs. AVRs, not just a link. If you’re not interested in discussing it, that’s fine, but then don’t frame my wanting a conversation as me ignoring good advice

 

[Dimitrov]

Yes, most of these questions have been discussed multiple times in multiple topics.

Yes, and they’ll continue to be discussed because gear changes, use cases differ, and people value fresh perspectives. If every question that had been asked before was shut down with ‘go search,’ forums would die. The entire point of a discussion board is discussion—not just acting as a static FAQ.

By keeping things centralized, you also centralize knowledge and therefore make it easier to find knowledge. So indeed, asking the same things over and over in separate threads is counter productive and confusing.

If you want a clean, centralized knowledge base, write a wiki or a sticky post. Don’t blame someone for using the forum the way forums are designed to be used—by asking a question and expecting human interaction.

Above all it makes it harder for beginners to find any knowledge at all. Sadly this is an inherent issue with these kind of forums, so we’ll just have to deal with that.

So @krabapple ‘s suggestion to start with the videos is actually a very sensible starting point.

Beginners find knowledge when experienced members take thirty seconds to summarize a perspective or explain why one approach might suit their stated use case. A dismissive ‘go watch Amir’s videos’ isn’t a gateway to knowledge; it’s a gatekeeping brush‑off. Beginners then walk away thinking the community is hostile to questions—which, ironically, makes the signal‑to‑noise ratio worse because people stop participating altogether.

 

[Oddball]

I didn’t realize asking a follow‑up question was equivalent to rejecting your advice. You pointed me to a set of videos which I'll watch when I have time to do so.

The implication that I should simply adopt your perspective because you’ve pointed me to a particular source is the opposite of helpful. If your perspective is ‘measurements are all that matter and ASR is the final word,’ then say that. But don’t frame it as obvious truth and then act surprised when someone wants to discuss it rather than passively absorb it.

So to be clear: I’m interested in the reasoning behind your take on stereo vs. AVRs, not just a link. If you’re not interested in discussing it, that’s fine, but then don’t frame my wanting a conversation as me ignoring good advice

You might be experiencing a communication problem here. It is not really possible to speak and demand when facing advanced members. You really need to do your homework first if want to engage with advanced members and topics.

For one, you should understand what room EQ does and how it compares vs the bench results. A good place to start IMO - and if you need more specific pointers than I guess you will just shout out.

 

[Dimitrov]

You might be experiencing a communication problem here.

This actually illustrates the problem perfectly. You’re framing a simple follow‑up question—‘I acknowledged your resource, now what’s your perspective?’—as ‘speaking and demanding.’ That’s not a communication problem on my end. That’s a community culture problem where asking for clarification is treated as insubordination.

is not really possible to speak and demand when facing advanced members.

I didn’t demand anything. If ‘advanced members’ can’t handle a polite request for elaboration without retreating behind appeals to authority and forum hierarchy, maybe the issue isn’t the person asking for more information.

You really need to do your homework first if want to engage with advanced members and topics.

For one, you should understand what room EQ does and how it compares vs the bench results. A good place to start IMO - and if you need more specific pointers than I guess you will just shout out.

This assumes I haven’t. I’m asking about stereo vs. AVR—a fundamental fork in the road. I’ve read plenty, but part of doing homework is asking people with experience to contextualize measurements and bench tests for real‑world use. Pointing someone to ASR is homework. Expecting them to then not ask any questions about it defeats the purpose of a discussion forum.

The sarcasm here (‘shout out’) is exactly the condescension that makes forums feel unwelcoming. I started politely. I was met with passive‑aggressive pushback. Now I’m being told I should have done more homework before engaging with ‘advanced members.’ That’s not a helpful starting point—it’s moving the goalposts.

And don't "like" my post and then circle back and start questioning my intent. If "like" means you agree with the contents of my post, don't contradict that, it sends a mixed signal and it makes me think you're not really here to help.

 

[krabapple]

I didn’t realize asking a follow‑up question was equivalent to rejecting your advice. You pointed me to a set of videos which I'll watch when I have time to do so.

The implication that I should simply adopt your perspective because you’ve pointed me to a particular source is the opposite of helpful. If your perspective is ‘measurements are all that matter and ASR is the final word,’ then say that. But don’t frame it as obvious truth and then act surprised when someone wants to discuss it rather than passively absorb it.

So to be clear: I’m interested in the reasoning behind your take on stereo vs. AVRs, not just a link. If you’re not interested in discussing it, that’s fine, but then don’t frame my wanting a conversation as me ignoring good advice

That you think you need further enlightenment after reading what's on this thread means you are ignoring good advice -- advice you'd find given repeatedly throughout this forum if you simply took the time to familiarize yourself with it.

You have my perspective: Audiophile claims of amp difference are typically stupid and wrong. Ignore them.
If you want to know why they are stupid and wrong, read up on the glaring deficiencies of their comparison methods. Amir's videos are among many sources to learn about that.

Here is the ASR bog-standard take:
amps-compared-blind-and level-matched-and-not-clipping-and-not-designed-to color-the-sound-should-sound-the-same

 

[voodooless]

Beginners find knowledge when experienced members take thirty seconds to summarize a perspective or explain why one approach might suit their stated use case.

We’re on page 8 of your topic, with all perspectives already shown multiple times, yet you keep repeating the same question over and over. You will not get a different answer… the suggestion to watch some videos at this point in the conversation is a very valid response.

Yes, and they’ll continue to be discussed because gear changes, use cases differ, and people value fresh perspectives. If every question that had been asked before was shut down with ‘go search,’ forums would die. The entire point of a discussion board is discussion—not just acting as a static FAQ.

You can do al that on centralized topics as well. In fact, it makes for a much more coherent story.

As to differing perspectives… the conclusions regarding this topic was never any different. Human biology hasn’t changed and audibility threshold have been well known for decades and amps have been decent for almost as long. Different perspectives would be nice if these questions would pop up once a few years. But the frequency is more like once a month, and all of the think they are so special that they should be entitled to have the exact same discussion over and over..

asking people with experience

This is exactly where the disconnect happens. This is AudioScienceReview, not AudioExperienceReview. We like to deal with science, engineering, models, empirical evidence, etc.. Experience, we leave to all the other forums.

 

[Dimitrov]

That you think you need further enlightenment after reading what's on this thread means you are ignoring good advice -- advice you'd find given repeatedly throughout this forum if you simply took the time to familiarize yourself with it.

You have my perspective: Audiophile claims of amp difference are typically stupid and wrong. Ignore them.
If you want to know why they are stupid and wrong, read up on the glaring deficiencies of their comparison methods. Amir's videos are among many sources to learn about that.

Here is the ASR bog-standard take:
amps-compared-blind-and level-matched-and-not-clipping-and-not-designed-to color-the-sound-should-sound-the-same

That’s actually a clear perspective. Had you led with ‘I think audible differences between competently designed amps are negligible, so for me the decision comes down to features, not sound quality,’ we would have had a substantive discussion from the start. Instead, we spent multiple posts talking about how I should stop asking questions.

You’re correct that I now have your perspective. But you’re still framing my wanting to understand why as ‘ignoring good advice’ and ‘needing further enlightenment’—as if asking for reasoning is a character flaw. It’s not. It’s how people learn to separate signal from noise in a hobby full of both.

 

[Dimitrov]

We’re on page 8 of your topic, with all perspectives already shown multiple times, yet you keep repeating the same question over and over. You will not get a different answer… the suggestion to watch some videos at this point in the conversation is a very valid response.

After I stepped back, the discussion continued for multiple pages without my participation. The idea that I’m the one responsible for the thread length or that I kept asking the same question doesn’t hold up when the majority of the later posts are meta‑commentary and back‑and‑forth among others—including the very member who claimed I was being difficult.

I got useful answers from several people. I just asked for one more, and then I get all this crap from you about asking the same question over and over again. It's absurd.

 

[Tre2023]

Yeah, but you were grilled evenly on both sides and have some nice lines.

 

[Oddball]

That’s actually a clear perspective. Had you led with ‘I think audible differences between competently designed amps are negligible, so for me the decision comes down to features, not sound quality,’ we would have had a substantive discussion from the start. Instead, we spent multiple posts talking about how I should stop asking questions.

You’re correct that I now have your perspective. But you’re still framing my wanting to understand why as ‘ignoring good advice’ and ‘needing further enlightenment’—as if asking for reasoning is a character flaw. It’s not. It’s how people learn to separate signal from noise in a hobby full of both.

Right - some nice tan for sure. But not sure if much of the wisdom spilled in this thread really rubbed in?

 

[Dimitrov]

What has become clear over the course of this thread is that genuine back‑and‑forth communication is not really tolerated here unless it follows a very specific script—newcomers should search, read, watch, and only then possibly ask, but never expect a direct conversation about their actual use case. When a simple follow‑up is treated as ‘demanding’ and the thread fills with pages of meta‑commentary about forum etiquette instead of the topic, it sends a clear message about the culture.

I’ve gotten what I needed from the members who chose to engage substantively. For the rest, I’ll leave you to your discussion.

Thanks to those who were actually helpful