I always wanted one of these and nearly pulled the trigger several times over the years but never did. They once were easy to find for $300 or so used but they are getting harder to find now. 
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AVR vs Stereo amp for music
- Thread starter Dimitrov
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Fair comments that I think most would agree to, it is too bad sometimes people seem fixated on a generalized conclusion, forgetting that there are AVRs that cost, as you cited, >$2000 and that would be the likes of the Cinema 30, A1H, A10H, RX-A8A, RZ70 that really can rival some of the best integrated amplifiers in 2 channel pure direct mode for music listening, and then they might win in many cased if the users know how to take advantage of Dirac Live, Audyssey or even Anthem ARC Genesis room correction systems. I am sure there are no shortages of people who are happily using such high quality AVRs or AVPs+power amps for 2 channel music listening and in some cases no longer need their separate 2 channel gear.The biggest problem I have with AVRs in recent years is the decrease in build quality. From the late 90s to around 2005 you could buy a nice $1k AVR from Denon/Yamaha/Marantz/Onkyo etc that weighed around 40 lbs with a solid aluminum face plate and knobs (that turned very smoothly). They had much nicer remotes that were often backlit. And a lot of that 40 lb weight came from the power supplies under the hood. Today's AVRs insides leave a lot to be desired in the power supply department until you spend about $2k, and even then there's a good chance it will have practically soda can thin aluminum over a plastic face plate, and plastic knobs. And it all started when HDMI was introduced...
That's my personal opinion and as they say, to each his own. I'm not knocking anyone that uses and enjoys AVRs. I prefer a much simpler 2 channel myself these days in a treated room and eq to taste.
On the other hand, for those who are using some entry level AVRs, as you mentioned, the <$1,000 AVRs that would likely(still there can be exceptions) be limited by their small power supplies and output devices, to the point it is easy to get superior 2 channel sound quality by using a low cost chip based stereo amplifier such as the 3e Audio A7, Fosi and other <$300 amps with similar specs verified by bench measurements. In those cases, even that kind of low cost so called "stereo amps" could/would sound audibly better under all else equal conditions especially when high enough current and/or voltage become a key factor.
I still would like to say it depends. If I am listening to large orchestral music on Youtube, I would try both but usually settled on using a Dolby or occasional DTS mode, whereas I would more likely use 2 channel stereo mode.
I have done that in the past and I might go back to that when I am ready to downside, for now I am using external amp for all channels, and I find the advantage of that is, if I still want to upgrade I can just focus on selecting an AVP.
I have done something similar with an Flex HTx and found that doing so would achieve a slightly tighter frequency response curve, but at this point I tend to just use the filter that achieved almost as tight frequency response curve using DLBC without the miniDSP EQ disabled, doing it this way took more time tweaking the DL target curve but I think sound quality should be better as its all done via DL's mixed phase filter whereas if the miniDSP EQ is active it might mess something up that it might be hard to see with REW.
If I read it right, I would soon be able to try DL ART as I read it somewhere that it would be available this year for the PC standalone version (that's what I have).
Just would like to note two things, the 800H did not measure well, it might be an outlier and the Stereo 70 and 900H may be much better, based the measured result of the Cinema 70 (the C70, hence 900H would therefore likely be even better). Second point is, with due respect, if (only if) your comparison listening was done sighted, then sorry, I would treat it as anecdotal, but obviously that's just me. If you did it in dbt or even sbt, then I would take it as potentially factual, that the difference was readily noticeable, at least to you.
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I always wanted one of these and nearly pulled the trigger several times over the years but never did. They once were easy to find for $300 or so used but they are getting harder to find now.
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If I can find a good condition RX-Z9, or DSP-Z9, or even the RX-Z11 for less than $1K I might jump on it just to have it for ownership pride. The Z9, iirc, is one of the only two AVR ever made that has the flagship TI DAC IC, the PCM or DSD 1792, that has specs as good as today's in terms of SINAD, but much better in SNR/DR (that is, after all these years..) AVR-X6800H, Cinema 30 and RX-A8A. The other AVR that uses the same DAC IC is the Denon AVR-5805. Back in those days, even the fully differential Denon AVP did not use the 1792, but the slightly less SOTA 1796.
Miniyouuuu
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I agree that a blind, level-matched test would be a stronger standard. But I don’t think my comparison should be dismissed as a mere anecdote. One amplifier directly replaced the other in the exact same system, in the same room, with the same speakers and source, so this was a controlled within-system comparison with only one variable changed.
I’m not claiming scientific proof, and I’m not extrapolating my experience with the DRA-800H to the 900H or the Stereo 70. I’m simply saying that, in my system and at the same listening level, the Audiolab was better to me.
And here you have some reviews:
Denon DRA-800H Review (Stereo Receiver)
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon DRA-800H Stereo AV Receiver. It was kindly purchased used by a member and drop shipped to me. It costs new US $599 from Amazon including Prime shipping. The front looks like any multi-channel receiver: Then you look in the back and...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Audiolab 9000CDT/9000A CD Transport/Amplifier Lab Reports
Lab Reports Audiolab 9000CDT/9000A (DAC) Tested via the 9000A's DAC/preamp output – a maximum 2.06V from a 116ohm source impedance – the partnering 9000CDT transport achieves a wide 109.1dB A-wtd S/N ratio via CD, a figure not bettered even with direct 24-bit inputs to the amplifier. The latter...
www.hifinews.com
It’s tough to directly compare these reviews, but there are a few points that might suggest the measured distortion on 800h was a bit more than what Audiolab showed.
Miniyouuuu
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Yes, almost 3 times more. It is not a fair comparison, but I would have no doubt that the audio chain improved. Not 3 times better (if thous could be measured), but I got better bass control and less distorsion. Is not a night and day difference but it is audible. Obviously amp changes are less noticeable than speaker changes. So 2 years later I changed my Lintons to Mofis SP10, and that was way more evident in data. I already post some comparisons in this forum.
The vast majority of my collection and what I listen to generally was made in 2ch, altho my multich collection is decent, it's still a relatively small part. I find some 2ch stuff sounds just fine upmixed with Dolby or DTS sound modes, some others not so much, so I switch to 2ch mode if the upmix doesn't sound right. As to which it starts in, more depends on the avr I'm using and what sound mode I last used it in for 2ch content.
I own 5 avrs, but use external amps on the front three channels only with the one in the largest room and with speakers that can take the most power. Once in a while I turn it up to where the amps make some difference, but mostly I could remove the power amps and be quite happy. Can't think of any disadvantage particularly. The advantage is simply more power. I already had the power amps, too. Haven't tried Dirac, but do tend to use Audyssey in the avrs that have that (two XT, two XT32, one Sony).
Miniyouuuu
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I must admit that I employ a combination of strategies. Since the MiniDSP Dirac Live license only supports two channels, even when you can configure four different inputs, I have to manually integrate both subs with the main speakers. Then I use Dirac as a final step to obtain FIR filters and enhance phase integration.
It’s a bit complicated but I like the control you get.
It’s a bit complicated but I like the control you get.
Do yourself a favour - go ART. Seems like you would be a guy to appreciate it.
Not an option with any of my models, they a bit older
Getting a new hot AVR is always an optionNot an option with any of my models, they a bit older
.LOL I'm pretty well equipped and happy with what I can do with Audyssey. Not that I haven't done that before....but have systems in all the appropriate spaces already, too.Getting a new hot AVR is always an option
I was super happy with Audy. LFE+mains and LFE distribution and probably hundreds of hours of making it work. Thought it was the thing. But then when ART came, I just could not believe how good it gets only from a single run and auto setup.
Can you save each of those profiles (for each input) where that would alleviate the need for fussing with the subs each time?
Have you tried OCA's Audyssey tweaks?
Not really - I just got comfy with ART. With all the respect to OCA and his great work, what ART does is just another level. Teams of folks have worked on that for years and it is bloody awesome. Creating an algo like ART is immensely complex.
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