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AVR vs integrated amp for stereo music+TV

boogiewoogie

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Mar 8, 2023
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Hey,

I'm looking to find a good fit for our quite simple living room setup, consisting of a TV and a pair of Elac DFR-52. So as far as I understand, that means some form of AVR or stereo amp/receiver powering the setup.

These are my goals:
  • The TV remote's volume control should be functional (as far as I understand, this means HDMI Arc)
  • Performance optimized for music listening (this includes plenty of power for the Elac DFR-52 at higher volumes)
  • Stay under 500€ used

I have the option to buy a Denon x3700h for 450€, and while it measured well, it seems like I'm overpaying for the whole 9.2 and million connections shenanigans that won't be used. So naturally I'm wondering, is there some device currently on the market that fulfills the above goals and does better for simple stereo music listening than the Denon x3700h?

Cheers,
Boogie
 
I would happily use the WiiM Amp for this job, and enjoy the streaming capabilities it offers as well. It will be a smaller box that blends in nicely and has fewer features you don’t use.

Having said that, the Denon will give you a touch more power and perhaps better automated room correction. In my living room, I would opt for the smaller box and music features of the WiiM!
 
For the price point suggested, yr gonna have a hard time beating the WiiM.
 
Will the WiiM alone have plenty of power for the Elacs? I've read that they benefit greatly from greater headroom and I was under the (wrong?) impression that this is where the WiiM is lacking compared to e.g. the x3700h.

Edit: I do listen to music at rather high volumes at times. Think Tool.

Edit2: I imagine an active subwoofer would help out here and ease the amp's job enough to where the WiiM amp is enough for the Elacs? I'm considering a subwoofer at some point down the line anyway, so this sounds like a good fit then, at least on paper.
 
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Will the WiiM alone have plenty of power for the Elacs? I've read that they benefit greatly from greater headroom and I was under the (wrong?) impression that this is where the WiiM is lacking compared to e.g. the x3700h.

Edit: I do listen to music at rather high volumes at times. Think Tool.

Edit2: I imagine an active subwoofer would help out here and ease the amp's job enough to where the WiiM amp is enough for the Elacs? I'm considering a subwoofer at some point down the line anyway, so this sounds like a good fit then, at least on paper.
My Revel F206 loudspeakers are about 11 feet away from my main listening position. A WiiM Amp had no trouble driving them in a 2.0 setup to very loud levels with headroom to spare, in a space of about 3,200 cubic feet. Perhaps you can audition a WiiM Amp with 'return privileges'.
 
Does the WiiM play/decode the "shiny disc" formats? ...I don't know but many stand-alone DACs don't. Most DVDs have an uncompressed stereo LPCM track but not all. I'm not sure how common it is on Blu-Rays. Older DVD players had stereo analog outputs and they could play any DVD but most newer DVD players only have digital outputs.

I paid about $300 (new) for my Sony 5.1 channel AVR and I'm happy with it.
 
Alternative to the WiiM Amp, maybe the WiiM Ultra at $330 which gives you more upgrade flexibility. You can add a sub. You can start with a cheap amp, then upgrade later.

I use a Topping PA5 (II), which is c.$220, so that’d be $550 total.

By the way, it looks WiiM are they’re adding the possibility of surround soon. It’d mean buying g a WiiM Mini and amp for rears.
 
My Revel F206 loudspeakers are about 11 feet away from my main listening position. A WiiM Amp had no trouble driving them in a 2.0 setup to very loud levels with headroom to spare, in a space of about 3,200 cubic feet. Perhaps you can audition a WiiM Amp with 'return privileges'.
That's good news. I think I'll try the WiiM Amp, as you suggest.
Denon. You may decide to add speakers later
Good point, but for now I think it's unlikely I'll go beyond 2.1. The WiiM amp seems to be greatly preferred for music around here, so it seems like the better pick for now.
Does the WiiM play/decode the "shiny disc" formats? ...I don't know but many stand-alone DACs don't. Most DVDs have an uncompressed stereo LPCM track but not all. I'm not sure how common it is on Blu-Rays. Older DVD players had stereo analog outputs and they could play any DVD but most newer DVD players only have digital outputs.
If it comes to that, I can still rip said disc and play it from a thumb drive directly on the TV, so I'm not worrying too much about that for now. Still, thanks for throwing that concern in, I didn't even consider this.
Alternative to the WiiM Amp, maybe the WiiM Ultra at $330 which gives you more upgrade flexibility. You can add a sub. You can start with a cheap amp, then upgrade later.

I use a Topping PA5 (II), which is c.$220, so that’d be $550 total.

By the way, it looks WiiM are they’re adding the possibility of surround soon. It’d mean buying g a WiiM Mini and amp for rears.
Thanks for the suggestion. Since it's very likely I'm staying on 2.0/2.1, it seems like the WiiM Amp is right for me, since it has more measured power than the PA5 and just the features I need in one package.
 
If you are getting a sub and want the LFE (.1) channel when watching TV then you need an AVR.
 
My life is interesting enough without artificially inserting extra suspense, would you care to explain?
It is a simple way to test LFE on your Wiim, but you do not seem to want to do it (or have done it and heard nothing). You seem to be all mouth and no trousers as they would say in Yorkshire!
 
It is a simple way to test LFE on your Wiim, but you do not seem to want to do it (or have done it and heard nothing). You seem to be all mouth and no trousers as they would say in Yorkshire!

For accuracy, I’m currently babysitting an elderly relative and am not sat with my WiiM.

These forums can be difficult enough without riddles.

If you’re going to answer a question, answer it. Don’t give us a guessing game.
 
It is a simple way to test LFE on your Wiim, but you do not seem to want to do it (or have done it and heard nothing). You seem to be all mouth and no trousers as they would say in Yorkshire!
Sharing the conclusion and providing the test would have been more efficient, but I confirm that the LFE track played from my computer to my WiiM amp does not produce any sound. Interesting, and thanks for illustrating it by sharing a test track. I haven't thought about whether my PC sound settings could be interfering, but it's a provocative point that it's not as straightforward as it would be using a receiver.

Further, if you're reliant on the TV as decoder, they're generally limited in their ability to control downmixing, etc. If your source is more capable of controlling downmix (i.e. routing LFE to the main channels, and then using the subwoofer crossover in the WiiM to divide the signals back out), then it's more usable for a true 2.1.

Revised Recommendation:
1. If you're able to control multi-channel downmix in your source (TV, streaming box, etc), you can get a full 2.1 experience through the WiiM by mixing LFE channel into mains and re-dividing it at the WiiM sub crossover
2. Otherwise, an AVR like the Denon does a better job handling multi-channel formats easily while giving control over how to downmix it to the 2.1 speakers
 
Sharing the conclusion and providing the test would have been more efficient, but I confirm that the LFE track played from my computer to my WiiM amp does not produce any sound. Interesting, and thanks for illustrating it by sharing a test track. I haven't thought about whether my PC sound settings could be interfering, but it's a provocative point that it's not as straightforward as it would be using a receiver.

Further, if you're reliant on the TV as decoder, they're generally limited in their ability to control downmixing, etc. If your source is more capable of controlling downmix (i.e. routing LFE to the main channels, and then using the subwoofer crossover in the WiiM to divide the signals back out), then it's more usable for a true 2.1.

Revised Recommendation:
1. If you're able to control multi-channel downmix in your source (TV, streaming box, etc), you can get a full 2.1 experience through the WiiM by mixing LFE channel into mains and re-dividing it at the WiiM sub crossover
2. Otherwise, an AVR like the Denon does a better job handling multi-channel formats easily while giving control over how to downmix it to the 2.1 speakers

Which WiiM are you using?

They’ve just released (or are just about to release?) in beta an update to support Dolby digital 5.1 and wireless surrounds.

I’m presuming that this will include support for the 0.1 channel.

At the moment it only appears to be listed for the Ultra, not the Amp/Amp Pro.

Whilst I can’t be certain, I wouldn’t want to come to a public forum and state as fact that anyone will definitely need an AV amp. I’ve edited my original comment accordingly.

I await the update with great interest.
 
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