AVR Upmixer Behavior with 5.1 System on 5.1 Tracks

[J. Lohmann]

Yea, It's off and 7.1 but really no issue that cant be solved in a few button pushes so really don't want to derail this tread any further

No derailing of the thread; I have been trying to clear some things up with regard to the way things work with Atmos, no overheads and the Virtualizer, but it is seemingly going on blind eyes for whatever reason.

That's strange that your unit is behaving that way, but it may be a vendor/year thing -- remind me again...you have a Marantz that's a few years old, right?

 

[Laika2]

No derailing of the thread; I have been trying to clear some things up with regard to the way things work with Atmos, no overheads and the Virtualizer, but it is seemingly going on blind eyes for whatever reason.

That's strange that your unit is behaving that way, but it may be a vendor/year thing -- remind me again...you have a Marantz that's a few years old, right?

Yes, 3 to 4 years, well cared for, ran as a preamp, all internal amps turned on for full preamp mode to a 7 channel 200 watt Outlaw amp, about the same age.

Doubt this has anything to do with anything but of course there is nothing pluged into the Atmos rca Jack's on the receiver. Speaker setting in menu are visual and labeled, it's correct, standard 7.1, no ceiling or height speakers show in the receivers layout.

I think you are right about models, did the unplug and reset, still. The same.

For me I just like knowledge in such things. It would be interesting to know even if the answer that's just the way it is.

My denon 6700 worked fine in that system, then became a part of my main system, the 6700 and the 8015 were same year rival models of D/M I would expect the same processing guts and actions, but no, no Atmos ever in the 7.1 as it should be, also had a denon 6800 there for a bit which is now my main system preamp and it worked as it should, no Atmos but that's a latter model, if it's a quirk they may have fixed it in that model. OH, on the unit now used, all updates are current.just checked.

Thanks for your interest.

 

[J. Lohmann]

Yes, 3 to 4 years, well cared for, ran as a preamp, all internal amps turned on for full preamp mode to a 7 channel 200 watt Outlaw amp, about the same age.

I assume you meant "all internal amps turned OFF" here...

Doubt this has anything to do with anything but of course there is nothing pluged into the Atmos rca Jack's on the receiver. Speaker setting in menu are visual and labeled, it's correct, standard 7.1, no ceiling or height speakers show in the receivers layout.

I think you are right about models, did the unplug and reset, still. The same.

For me I just like knowledge in such things. It would be interesting to know even if the answer that's just the way it is.

My denon 6700 worked fine in that system, then became a part of my main system, the 6700 and the 8015 were same year rival models of D/M I would expect the same processing guts and actions, but no, no Atmos ever in the 7.1 as it should be, also had a denon 6800 there for a bit which is now my main system preamp and it worked as it should, no Atmos but that's a latter model, if it's a quirk they may have fixed it in that model. OH, on the unit now used, all updates are current.just checked.

Thanks for your interest.

Yeah, running it as a preamp wouldn't have anything to do with what we're discussing here, as it's still the software inside the AVR.

Interesting enough, I received a firmware update for my 2800 a couple of nights ago, where it just shut off in the middle of a disc I was watching and performed the update; so annoying how Denon does their updates.

 

[Laika2]

I assume you meant "all internal amps turned OFF" here...

Yeah, running it as a preamp wouldn't have anything to do with what we're discussing here, as it's still the software inside the AVR.

Interesting enough, I received a firmware update for my 2800 a couple of nights ago, where it just shut off in the middle of a disc I was watching and performed the update; so annoying how Denon does their updates.

Been there, tried to scheduled them for 3 in the morning but that seems like a pipe dream, it's done it in the middle of a great movie just when I am getting into it, more than once. It should at least come up with a delay "Install now" Install in x hours". At least it's a 6 month thing and not often.

 

[J. Lohmann]

Been there, tried to scheduled them for 3 in the morning but that seems like a pipe dream, it's done it in the middle of a great movie just when I am getting into it, more than once. It should at least come up with a delay "Install now" Install in x hours". At least it's a 6 month thing and not often.

Right -- it just shuts off in the middle of what you're watching. Whenever it happens, I think the amp blew or something...

There's no way to customize the update frequency?

 

[Laika2]

Right -- it just shuts off in the middle of what you're watching. Whenever it happens, I think the amp blew or something...

Same here first time, I remember thinking I hope that's the protection circuit and not something like the amp till the screen came back and said updating.

There's no way to customize the update frequency?

Only the time I believe, IM WRONG (yea just checked, it's a delay not a time setting but I get no choice to delay so it just rolls. Could be a setting, never looked into it. BUT all auto updates if auto left on according to the manual are only to installed when in standby mode no matter what. It's on now as I checked updates this morning but I have taken to leave updates off sometimes and then just check every six months or hear about the update here somewhere and apply it. If it only did it in standby mode that would be a great help.

I sorta leave this smaller stuff to the fact a modern AVR is half computer and like laptops, desktops, phones and tablets, they will have quirks and a need for reboots to get back to normal.

Have a great day my friend.

 

[J. Lohmann]

Same here first time, I remember thinking I hope that's the protection circuit and not something like the amp till the screen came back and said updating.



Only the time I believe, IM WRONG (yea just checked, it's a delay not a time setting but I get no choice to delay so it just rolls. Could be a setting, never looked into it. BUT all auto updates if auto left on according to the manual are only to installed when in standby mode no matter what. It's on now as I checked updates this morning but I have taken to leave updates off sometimes and then just check every six months or hear about the update here somewhere and apply it. If it only did it in standby mode that would be a great help.

I sorta leave this smaller stuff to the fact a modern AVR is half computer and like laptops, desktops, phones and tablets, they will have quirks and a need for reboots to get back to normal.

Have a great day my friend.

Agreed -- I, too, would prefer it if it was executed while the AVR was turned off and in standby mode.

Have a great weekend.

 

[Sal1950]

Interesting enough, I received a firmware update for my 2800 a couple of nights ago, where it just shut off in the middle of a disc I was watching and performed the update; so annoying how Denon does their updates.

Same here first time, I remember thinking I hope that's the protection circuit and not something like the amp till the screen came back and said updating.

Go into Settings - Firmware and
Turn OFF Auto Updates
Turn OFF Allow Updates

 

[Laika2]

Go into Settings - Firmware and
Turn OFF Auto Updates
Turn OFF Allow Updates

Thanks, That's what I usually do now, smart not just to prevent interruption, but also let's you check to see if the update has issues and better waiting till it's fixed.

 

[Sal1950]

Thanks, That's what I usually do now, smart not just to prevent interruption, but also let's you check to see if the update has issues and better waiting till it's fixed.

Good thinkin, Best idea is to let the new firmware get out in the wild for a couple months to be sure its safe.
Check out the reports on AVS Forums before some accident bricks your components.

 

[Chrispy]

So what was your original question referring to? Sorry, so much has been lost in this thread already...

Just trying to determine what soundmixer was talking about with Dolby TrueHD in the case of streaming.....never mind, not important. It's just DD+, not DTHD.

 

[Soundmixer]

No problem. For me it's all about the music.



Not streaming Atmos, it's base is DD+

I guess you missed this...

"All Atmos STREAMS are lossy, whether Atmos or not. "

I said this above.

 

[Soundmixer]

I've not run into a streaming service offering lossless streaming, but haven't really looked for a while otoh. None of the major streamers offer such, do they?

There is no movies that have lossless audio, but plenty of music streaming services offer lossless audio.

 

[Soundmixer]

Atmos merely tells a processor to "pull" additional overhead cues from the base TrueHD signal; but you're right about Dolby TrueHD being correctly shown when there's no overheads.

The bottom line is this:

If you have at least two overhead channels, configure the processor or AVR as such, and "Dolby Atmos" will show when such signals are bitstreamed from a source.

If you only have a 5.1 or lesser setup, configure the processor or AVR as such, and "Dolby Atmos" will only show if, on a Denon or Marantz, the "Speaker Virtualizer" is turned ON. If it's turned OFF, Atmos tracks will show as "DTHD" on the front display.

If you have a 5.1 setup with five bed-level speakers and want an "Atmos-like" experience, turn the Virtualizer ON; this will manipulate 5.1 and lower signals to simulate sound coming from above (in MY case, I already have in-ceiling speakers as surrounds, so using the Virtualizer would just make a mess of things).

Atmos does not "pull" anything. Overhead objects have to be mixed or panned into place. The cues to do so come from the metadata in the data stream. You are codecsplanin to me, and I have been working with DTS and Dolby codecs since 1998. I know exactly what it does.

 

[Chrispy]

There is no movies that have lossless audio, but plenty of music streaming services offer lossless audio.

Lossless audio in multich?

 

[Soundmixer]

Lossless audio in multich?

No lossless multichannel streaming, but there are plenty of lossless multichannel downloads.

 

[J. Lohmann]

Go into Settings - Firmware and
Turn OFF Auto Updates
Turn OFF Allow Updates

Yes, I know I can shut it off from there; just wish Denon implemented this differently so the amp didn't shut off in the middle of watching something.

 

[J. Lohmann]

Atmos does not "pull" anything. Overhead objects have to be mixed or panned into place. The cues to do so come from the metadata in the data stream. You are codecsplanin to me, and I have been working with DTS and Dolby codecs since 1998. I know exactly what it does.

First of all, take it down a notch -- I never said Atmos does the pulling. I said an Atmos signal "TELLS" a processor to take overhead cues from a TrueHD core. There is a TrueHD core, in which spatial cues are imbedded, and these are derived from the TrueHD mix when a processor has been configured so that it knows overhead channels are in place. In turn, the AVR/processor reads "Atmos" on the display via the bitstreamed signal from the source.

 

[Chrispy]

Yes, I know I can shut it off from there; just wish Denon implemented this differently so the amp didn't shut off in the middle of watching something.

If you find another way other than just turning it off let me know

 

[Chrispy]

No lossless multichannel streaming, but there are plenty of lossless multichannel downloads.

Who do you use for multich downloads?