AVR Upmixer Behavior with 5.1 System on 5.1 Tracks

[Laika2]

That's not how my Denon works, at all, and it was explained to me by a Denon engineer that the Virtualizer must be on in order to see the "Dolby Atmos" insignia on the display if your system doesn't have overheads.

I tested it countless times with my own AVR -- if I keep the Virtualizer ON, I get "Dolby Atmos" on front of the AVR. If I turn it OFF, I get "DTHD," because it's decoding the TrueHD core.

Do you know where that setting is off the top of your head or I will just look it up, thanks. Should be the same or close on a Marantz.

 

[J. Lohmann]

Deleted

 

[J. Lohmann]

Do you know where that setting is off the top of your head or I will just look it up, thanks. Should be the same or close on a Marantz.

I explained it a few posts up...you need to go into the setup menu under "Audio" (on a Denon, which, as you said, should be close on a Marantz) and there should be choices under SURROUND PARAMETER. That's where Speaker Virtualizer settings are.

See post #34 -- I left out the part about SURROUND PARAMETERS, which is under the Audio section.

 

[Laika2]

I explained it a few posts up...you need to go into the setup menu under "Audio" (on a Denon, which, as you said, should be close on a Marantz) and there should be choices under SURROUND PARAMETER. That's where Speaker Virtualizer settings are.

See post #34 -- I left out the part about SURROUND PARAMETERS, which is under the Audio section.

OK Thank you very much, just ran through all the major soundfields, DTD and above and Dolby and above. "Speaker Visualizer" is turned off in all sound-fields. (if had spotted it it would have been turned off years ago, looks like I did.

Thanks for your help, it appears D/M removed the feature that let you avoid ATMOS, even though "Speaker Visualizer" is OFF it still often defaults to Dolby. Hey buddy, Glad it works on yours, no big deal on mine, just though I could get rid of a few button clicks on the remote. It's a 5 second thing to get to the right one.

 

[kyuu]

What brand and model AVR do you have? Might just be a Denon thing...

Yeah might be a vendor thing. I have the JBL MA7100HP. By my understanding Atmos does not necessarily imply overhead speakers. It's just an object-based surround format that can have overhead channels. Could be wrong though.

 

[Laika2]

Yeah might be a vendor thing. I have the JBL MA7100HP. By my understanding Atmos does not necessarily imply overhead speakers. It's just an object-based surround format that can have overhead channels. Could be wrong though.

Yea, I think you are on to something, can't remember what, Bluetooth speaker, android phone, something with a speaker or two at the most with a Atmos label. I can even turn on Atmos on my laptop for just the internal two speakers, not some outboard rig. I get the feeling Atmos means/does different things on some devices.

Yup .. No idea what this does, sounds like just three old school sound-fields that boost or cut for different equalization of the speakers.

How to Enable Dolby Atmos on Android:

1. Access Settings: Open your phone's settings app.
2. • Navigate to Sound Settings: Find and tap on "Sounds and vibration" or a similar option.
   • Find Sound Quality and Effects: Look for "Sound quality and effects" or a related setting.
   • Activate Dolby Atmos: Toggle the switch to turn Dolby Atmos on.
   • Choose a Profile: Select from available profiles like Auto, Movie, Music, or Voice to best suit your content.
     

 

[kyuu]

Dolby has definitely done us no favors by pushing the Atmos branding onto a bunch of different, unrelated things such as laptops, phones, etc. Those have nothing to do with the actual surround format and are just EQ filters and/or some kind of virtualization.

 

[Chrispy]

Well, the thing is, these manufacturers assume every setup supports Atmos now (or, at the very least, 7.1), which is why the 5.1 models that are left in the lineups are REALLY cheap and stripped -- of power, features and build. In reality, a 5.1 AVR is all we personally need, but their build and specs are so poor, there's no way any of them would do any good for powering, at the very least, our Polk RTi12 towers up front.

I hate this Denon so much that I am seriously considering reinstalling my old Onkyo, and living with the shortcomings (no processing power to properly matrix 2.0 DTS-HD signals, a malfunctioning HDMI MONITOR out port, no way to change the preferred HDMI input for my 4K BD player to anything other than "DVD," etc.). It was so much more simple to use compared to this X2800, and didn't have the added confusion of seeing the Dolby Surround and DTS Neural:X upmixer designations on the display when they're not active.

I think Atmos isn't always referring to use of the overheads, its mostly a confusing term IMO. I'd like to see more details on just what it does with particular codecs, tho.

 

[Chrispy]

Lean to your right, then to the left, and dig down into those deep pockets.
Then come up with the cash to get at least a 4 speaker Atmos config mounted up.
You'll never regret it.

Nah, am cheap and not inspired enough to make that crawl in the attic. Cash isn't the issue. I won't lose sleep over it

 

[Laika2]

I think Atmos isn't always referring to use of the overheads, its mostly a confusing term IMO. I'd like to see more details on just what it does with particular codecs, tho.

That's what I am wondering, with only a bed layer on my lesser system what does it do to add more bass. If I knew how it worked it may be beneficial with some X32 modifications on bass, who knows till we know what it does.

 

[Chrispy]

That's what I am wondering, with only a bed layer on my lesser system what does it do to add more bass. If I knew how it worked it may be beneficial with some X32 modifications on bass, who knows till we know what it does.

Can't say I've noticed any difference as to added bass from the Atmos sound mode....

 

[Laika2]

Can't say I've noticed any difference as to added bass from the Atmos sound mode....

Interesting, It's not placebo, it's muddy enough center dialogue is often hard to hear, off it's crystal clear. My guess, whatever the heck it's doing, you have the room for it to work properly and I don't. Thinking about how bass performs in different rooms do you think it improves the sound (we are talking about a just bed layer system, correct, my other system sounds great, same speakers mostly, but there I have 4 Atmos ceiling speakers.) I am just curious if anyone finds it soniclly advantageous.

Thanks, Interesting info.

 

[Soundmixer]

I think Atmos isn't always referring to use of the overheads, its mostly a confusing term IMO. I'd like to see more details on just what it does with particular codecs, tho.

Yes, Atmos is ALWAYS referring to the use of overheads. Without the overheads, you have Dolby TrueHD.

 

[Soundmixer]

That's what I am wondering, with only a bed layer on my lesser system what does it do to add more bass. If I knew how it worked it may be beneficial with some X32 modifications on bass, who knows till we know what it does.

Atmos, in and of itself, does not automatically add more bass. A mixer must mix more bass into the bed channels or LFE to get more bass.

 

[Sal1950]

Nah, am cheap and not inspired enough to make that crawl in the attic. Cash isn't the issue. I won't lose sleep over it

But you don't really need to go into the attic and many folks have ceilings that just don't allow speakers to be placed into the ceiling like me. There are a number of speakers out there like my SVS Prime Elevation's that mount ON the ceiling. Where there's a will, there's a way.

 

[Soundmixer]

Yeah might be a vendor thing. I have the JBL MA7100HP. By my understanding Atmos does not necessarily imply overhead speakers. It's just an object-based surround format that can have overhead channels. Could be wrong though.

As I stated above, you don't have Atmos without the overhead speakers. All you have is Dolby TrueHD. Dolby TrueHD does not use objects, and you can mix in Atmos without using objects. The use of objects is only necessary when you want to place an effect in a specific place within the soundfield.

 

[Laika2]

Atmos, in and of itself, does not automatically add more bass. A mixer must mix more bass into the bed channels or LFE to get more bass.

Agreed, hence the question of why it is on a bed layer only system and what is it doing. I'm giving up, I can easily switch it to the right sound field but I think it's doing something on mine like the android phone quote a bit above, a changed curve , it's doing something in my room for sure and it's bass. I can't make out many words when on but crystal clear when off and in the proper encode for the source. That is repeated the same sections of a movie. I can now tell if it's on when I fire up something without even looking at the indicator.

Oh well. Was not a problem to hit a few extra buttons for 3 years, so it's no issue to me other than curiosity,

Have a great night.

 

[Sal1950]

Dolby has definitely done us no favors by pushing the Atmos branding onto a bunch of different, unrelated things such as laptops, phones, etc. Those have nothing to do with the actual surround format and are just EQ filters and/or some kind of virtualization.

You right but wrong at the same time. Dolby has done us a favor getting people to think they'll get something special from things like a soundbar thus creating interest and marketing power in the technology. Otherwise considering the few of us dedicated audiophiles that would purchase Atmos products, etc, the format would have just died long ago for us music lovers. Instead we've had thousands of Quad, 5.1, and Atmos music mastered over the last decade along.

Oh well. Was not a problem to hit a few extra buttons for 3 years, so it's no issue to me other than curiosity,

I'm very sorry, we've discussed this with you over and over. I'm still not sure what your exact problem or complaint is but either you still don't have your configurations set correctly, or you want the system to operate in a way it just doesn't. I've been running these same basic D-M AV products for close to 10 years without issues. ???
Are you a member at AVS Forums? Maybe go there, find the dedicated thread header for your particular AV and bring up your issues. Sometimes these difference models can have minor differences in how they get configured. You might find experts on your exact rig that could make you happy. All those config options buried in the menus can sometimes effect things in weird ways.
Good Luck, Sal

https://www.avsforum.com/

 

[Laika2]

I'm very sorry, we've discussed this with you over and over. I'm still not sure what your exact problem or complaint is but either you still don't have your configurations set correctly, or you want the system to operate in a way it just doesn't.

It would be the latter, don't want ATMOS triggered automatically in a 7.1 strictly bed layer system. I have followed the advice given such as turn off the virtualization (it was off)

I've been running these same basic D-M AV products for close to 10 years without issues. ???

Fair, I'm pushing a few more years but ownership does not equal knowledge.

Are you a member at AVS Forums? Maybe go there, find the dedicated thread header for your particular AV and bring up your issues. Sometimes these difference models can have minor differences in how they get configured. You might find experts on your exact rig that could make you happy. All those config options buried in the menus can sometimes effect things in weird ways.

Agreed, But I think I am just going to do what I always do, hit those extra two buttons to match the source encoding to the receiver and play atmos sources in the proper source encoding that is only the bed layer as I always have. But I'm kind of hijacking a thread, I had a quick question out of curiosity that kind of blew up. Al is good. Whatever it is if quickly fixed.

Have a great night..

Good Luck, Sal

https://www.avsforum.com/

 

[Chrispy]

But you don't really need to go into the attic and many folks have ceilings that just don't allow speakers to be placed into the ceiling like me. There are a number of speakers out there like my SVS Prime Elevation's that mount ON the ceiling. Where there's a will, there's a way.
View attachment 468255

Yes, I've considered such. I'd much prefer in-ceiling speakers than something like that hanging down, tho. Thanks for the thought