AVR or processors from China with Topping performance?

[anphex]

Hey guys!

I was wondering if there is information about available or upcoming pre amps or processors with HDMI input management and multiple outputs. Even a DAC with more than 2 output channels would already make me pretty happy. But my research bare no fruits so far. Does any one of you know a product like this?

 

[Helicopter]

If you need HDMI inputs, a Denon AVR with pre-outs is probably the best performance per dollar. If you only need audio inputs and outputs, miniDSP SHD might be the best option. You could buy the SHD and then get an inexpensive device to strip the audio from the HDMI. I am using one of those with a stereo receiver and an older TV that doesn't have TosLink out.

 

[Koeitje]

Tonewinner is the only company that makes these that I can come up with, but not clue on how good the performance is. I have an IOTA AVX1 and the noise level is higher than that of my NC400. You can hear the noise level from the tweeter drop significantly when you turn off the processor. And I believe Tonewinner makes those.

Problem with AVRs and processors is that they are incredibly complex, plus you need to pay licensing fees.

 

[DACs_Lover]

If topping has a AVR, I replace my current Onkyo AVR right away.

 

[hmt]

Hey guys!

I was wondering if there is information about available or upcoming pre amps or processors with HDMI input management and multiple outputs. Even a DAC with more than 2 output channels would already make me pretty happy. But my research bare no fruits so far. Does any one of you know a product like this?

Why would that matter? The SINAD of the recent Denon AVRs is well above audibility.

 

[abdo123]

Why would that matter? The SINAD of the recent Denon AVRs is well above audibility.

the noise is not at all above audibility. distortion is though.

 

[hmt]

You would have to employ a Speaker with crazy high sensitivity to have a problem with noise (it is -140 db with preamp mode on).

 

[Trell]

Why would that matter? The SINAD of the recent Denon AVRs is well above audibility.

If you are using the pre-out there might be an issue with output voltage above 1.4V, as measured on this forum.

 

[hmt]

Not with preamp mode enabled.

 

[Trell]

Not with preamp mode enabled.

Depends how not-recent the Denon AVR is, though, like only the current models supports that unless you talk about the flagship.

 

[hmt]

Actually this is a bit of hair splitting. There are AVRs to go with for anphex.

 

[peanuts]

If topping has a AVR, I replace my current Onkyo AVR right away.

the difference is onkyo is usually reliable. topping cant make a dac without bugs in one way or another

 

[Trell]

Actually this is a bit of hair splitting.

Hey, if you meant "the current Denon AVRs" you could write so, for otherwise it's not hair-splitting, as in there is significant differences.

There are AVRs to go with for anphex.

Sure, but perhaps not pre-current Denon AVR, depending on required preout output level into an amplifier.

Edit: Spelling

 

[Trouble Maker]

the difference is onkyo is usually reliable.

I like this joke, you're funny.

 

[abdo123]

You would have to employ a Speaker with crazy high sensitivity to have a problem with noise (it is -140 db with preamp mode on).

Okay there are multiple things that you got wrong here, first of all the FFT window provides no meaningful numbers, the noise is not -140, not even close. check this out:

Second of all, the Denon X3700H has dynamic range of 108 dB @ 2Vrms. lets do some math shall we?

The Denon will have 8uV of residual noise, a typical amplifier has around 29dB of gain. That is a voltage gain of 28 times. So the DAC contribution to the noise will be roughly 224uV.

A really good power amplifier with say 150WPC may have a S/N of 120dB plus (Hypex, Purifi, Benchmark), which will mean a residual of around 35uV, so the D/A's contribution is well over six times the amplifier's and the two will combine to become audible when the volume is high. That example would result in a S/N of ~104.5dB, a degradation of 15.5 dB from a 120dB rated amplifier.

this is still not inaudible yet, and almost ~40 dB less than what you predicted.

 

[mdsimon2]

Okay there are multiple things that you got wrong here, first of all the FFT window provides no meaningful numbers, the noise is not -140, not even close. check this out:

Second of all, the Denon X3700H has dynamic range of 108 dB @ 2Vrms. lets do some math shall we?

The Denon will have 0.78mV of residual noise, a typical amplifier has around 29dB of gain. That is a voltage gain of 28 times. So the DAC contribution to the noise will be roughly 21.8 mV.

A really good power amplifier with say 150WPC may have a S/N of 120dB plus (Hypex, Purifi, Benchmark), which will mean a residual of around 35uV, so the D/A's contribution is well over six hundred and twenty two times the amplifier's and the two will combine to become audible when the volume is high. That example would result in a S/N of ~64dB, a degradation of 56dB from a 120dB rated amplifier.

this is far far far from inaudible, and almost ~80 dB less than what you predicted.

You might want to check your avr residual noise calculation, I think you are off by a few orders of magnitude.

I agree that if you compare a SOTA amplifier to a middle of the road avr the avr will likely have more noise but in practice with normal sensitivity speakers I doubt the residual noise of the avr is an issue.

Michael

 

[abdo123]

You might want to check your avr residual noise calculation, I think you are off by a few orders of magnitude.

I agree that if you compare a SOTA amplifier to a middle of the road avr the avr will likely have more noise but in practice with normal sensitivity speakers I doubt the residual noise of the avr is an issue.

Michael

you’re right i missed the % In THD+N i will fix the calculation.

 

[abdo123]

but in practice with normal sensitivity speakers I doubt the residual noise of the avr is an issue.

I really doubt this is the case, considering that Home Cinema pushes for at least above 90dB/2.83V sensitivity speakers to get adequate levels across long distances.

if we plug in the same calculation but using something more realistic, like the Denon's own amplifiers, the residual noise of the DAC will be 200uV and the residual noise of the amplifier will be 200uV (instead of 35uV) resulting in a total S/N ratio of ~94dB.

This is honestly audible in most situations, specially during the night or in a dedicated room.

 

[Koeitje]

Who cares about a/v receivers. Processors are the real problem, there is nothing out there that performs well for a reasonable price. I also don't want a huge box, for some reason pretty much all processors are huge.

 

[hmt]

I really doubt this is the case, considering that Home Cinema pushes for at least above 90dB/2.83V sensitivity speakers to get adequate levels across long distances.

if we plug in the same calculation but using something more realistic, like the Denon's own amplifiers, the residual noise of the DAC will be 200uV and the residual noise of the amplifier will be 200uV (instead of 35uV) resulting in a total S/N ratio of ~94dB.

This is honestly audible in most situations, specially during the night or in a dedicated room.

Not over long distances.