AVR Decisions - Anthem, Arcam, Denon, Yamaha...?

[Trell]

I am sure Anthem hasn't figured that out.

Huh?

 

[Flak]

The measurement tape will fail if you have any subwoofer connected to the pre-out as their DSP typically add a significant delay.

Let me quote this... subwoofers featuring DSPs do add a significant delay, many times more than the 1 ms mentioned in a previous post,
one should eventually ask the manufacturer about that value.
In other words, one has to take the acoustical distance into account instead of the physical one... this can be accomplished by the algorithm by looking at the different arrival times of the pulses at the main listening point.

 

[Newman]

Let me quote this... subwoofers featuring DSPs do add a significant delay, many times more than the 1 ms mentioned in a previous post, one should eventually ask the manufacturer about that value.

Well the MiniDSP2x4 has 1.2 msec latency, and the more complex nanoDIGI2x8 has 0.6 msec. So there is no need for the relatively rudimentary in-sub DSP to be any more.

You said you were going to quote something. So show us the quote.

 

[Flak]

Well the MiniDSP2x4 has 1.2 msec latency, and the more complex nanoDIGI2x8 has 0.6 msec. So there is no need for the relatively rudimentary in-sub DSP to be any more.

You said you were going to quote something. So show us the quote.

Those miniDSP units are not subwoofer DSPs, actually one should use a 2x4 for delaying the mains if a sub with a DSP is used... anyhow, by googling, the first value of delay introduced by a subwoofer's DSP that I've found is this:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/subwoofers-and-time-relationships.2990/
so there are 9 milliseconds for this JL sub but I'm confident that are others that introduce more even if I don't remember,
if interested in those values you can contact the sub manufacturers who will confirm a significant delay.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Huh?

Anthem room correction uses outboard computer. I'm sure distance was too complicated.

 

[Newman]

Those miniDSP units are not subwoofer DSPs, actually one should use a 2x4 for delaying the mains if a sub with a DSP is used... anyhow, by googling, the first value of delay introduced by a subwoofer's DSP that I've found is this:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/subwoofers-and-time-relationships.2990/
so there are 9 milliseconds for this JL sub but I'm confident that are others that introduce more even if I don't remember,
if interested in those values you can contact the sub manufacturers who will confirm a significant delay.

Hi, that has nothing to do with the sub having DSP….. all subs have group delay….

Here you see a comment that SVS subs with DSP have 1.5 msec of DSP latency. (Ed Mullen is Director, Technical at SVS).

Here you see Nathan Funk of Funk Audio commenting that their subs with DSP have 0.6 msec of DSP latency.

I am comfortable with my 1 msec generic suggestion.

All of which is saying we could ignore it and the small phase error would not result in any harm done, as I originally explained, before you came in saying it is many times more than my suggested 1 msec.

cheers

 

[Sal1950]

The big boys haven't done well with room correction. Dirac and Anthem are in another league. Disappointed with Audessey over the years.

Don't know why people seem to want to take cheap shots at Audyssey based on their experience from "years ago". Audyssey was one of the first semi-automated DRC included in AVR's and no, it wasn't very good. And of the few others around, neither was anyone else's. On the other hand, todays Audyssey combined with the $20 Editor app is a superb piece of FREE DRC software. If combined with some REW measurements and final tweaking thru the Editor software you can get results right up there with Anthem ARC or Dirac. With any of the 3 it's up to you, garbage in/garbage out.
You want better, look into some of the other fully manual software/hardware out there. Results can be superb, if your willing to put a few months into learning the software and the all the rest.

Maybe you missed Amir's review of the current Audyssey?
"I am happy to recommend Audyssey XT32 with use of Denon/Marantz app to customize it."
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/audyssey-room-eq-review.12746/

 

[Newman]

todays Audyssey combined with the $20 Editor app is a superb piece of FREE DRC software.

Can you link us to some good articles about the way Audyssey does its correction? How about the technical gurus behind it: have they gone into print to lay out how advanced it is, as part of the current RC landscape?

 

[Sal1950]

Can you link us to some good articles about the way Audyssey does its correction? How about the technical gurus behind it: have they gone into print to lay out how advanced it is, as part of the current RC landscape?

Do your own homework, I'm not paid enough.

 

[Chrispy]

The big boys haven't done well with room correction. Dirac and Anthem are in another league. Disappointed with Audessey over the years.

XT32 and the app do quite well in comparison by most reports in comparison that I've seen, YMMV. I wouldn't buy Anthem just for the RC program in any case, too high a premium for what otherwise seems buggy and problematic in several respects.

 

[Flak]

Here you see Nathan Funk of Funk Audio commenting that their subs with DSP have 0.6 msec of DSP latency.

I am comfortable with my 1 msec generic suggestion.

All of which is saying we could ignore it and the small phase error would not result in any harm done, as I originally explained, before you came in saying it is many times more than my suggested 1 msec.

cheers

I wouldn't feel comfortable with your 1 msec generic suggestion... I've read your own link to the above post and you seem to skip the fact that it's an answer to a post where it's correctly stated:
"tvuong said:
One thing to note is that DSP amp adds additional ~5-9ms delay (~ 5-9ft) to your MLP"

Not a problem anyhow... one can check with the sub manufacturer the delay introduced when the DSP is used

 

[abdo123]

it's 2021 why would we make assumptions when automated software can figure out what the exact delay is.

 

[Newman]

Do your own homework, I'm not paid enough.

I tried, and it is much harder than it should be.

Your post gave me the impression that you “put months into learning the software and all the rest”, so I was hopeful.

BTW some forums have a rule against “go Google it yourself” replies to questions, as it is considered rude.

cheers

 

[peng]

I tried, and it is much harder than it should be.

Your post gave me the impression that you “put months into learning the software and all the rest”, so I was hopeful.

BTW some forums have a rule against “go Google it yourself” replies to questions, as it is considered rude.

cheers

Here's an older one:
Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction Interview With Chris Kyriakakis | Audioholics

There are more recent ones, some went into more details, but would take some time to search them all out.

 

[Sal1950]

BTW some forums have a rule against “go Google it yourself” replies to questions, as it is considered rude.

Well we don't, besides you were just trying to bust balls.
But feel free to consider me rude. RTFM

 

[Newman]

Well we don't, besides you were just trying to bust balls.
But feel free to consider me rude. RTFM

I don’t know what you mean or why you say that.

It’s banned in some forums for a perfectly good reason. Please be more considerate.

cheer

 

[Newman]

Here's an older one:
Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction Interview With Chris Kyriakakis | Audioholics

There are more recent ones, some went into more details, but would take some time to search them all out.

Thanks for that it’s very helpful. I had not seen it before.

I don’t know why I’m having trouble finding these. Hopefully the more recent ones will come to light.

The company website is discouraging: it gives the impression that they have moved on to other products and barely mention the room correction product. It’s just a standard “We offer industry solutions, call us” website, with a heavy home page focus on voice recognition.

Maybe I’ll find more on the Denon and Marantz sites.

 

[Chrispy]

Thanks for that it’s very helpful. I had not seen it before.

I don’t know why I’m having trouble finding these. Hopefully the more recent ones will come to light.

The company website is discouraging: it gives the impression that they have moved on to other products and barely mention the room correction product. It’s just a standard “We offer industry solutions, call us” website, with a heavy home page focus on voice recognition.

Maybe I’ll find more on the Denon and Marantz sites.

Still a somewhat active Audyssey group on FB, Chris K still participates too. They have moved on, tho. XT32/app is probably it for a while....

 

[Newman]

It seems to be an area where being active and at the forefront would be important to be seen as competitive?

 

[Chrispy]

It seems to be an area where being active and at the forefront would be important to be seen as competitive?

Or they feel it's a mature product for their market while they find new revenue streams with different products more interesting to consumers generally? I believe Chris K has sold at least some of his interest in it in order to do just that....otoh they've been around a while, it's the others trying to catch up at least in their marketing?

ps This is the Audyssey group on FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/search/groups_home/?q=audyssey tech talk