AVR as Processor/Pre-Amp into DAC/Streamer?

[Ruediger]

Please give me some feedback if this is even worth trying..

I can't let go of an AVR, although I would love too for music. I am using 2.1 only in that specific room. The speakers are high quality floorstanders and a sub ($7k in those 3) and I am very satisfied with them.

What I would like to do for music is use a WiiM Ultra into a 2 x 500W power amp. And use the sub management and RoomFit off the WiiM.

But I need processing of 4k/8k HDMI sources and HDMI out. Home theater is equally important as music in that room. So there is a Denon X3800H as AVR there.

The usual way would be to put the WiiM Ultra into the AVR together with the HDMI sources, put the AVR into pre-amp mode, connect the power amp to FR out and connect the subwoofer. Then use room correction from the AVR, which is probably a good bit superior to WiiM RoomFit in this case (is it?).

But what if I don't want the Denon as music pre-amp and prefer the WiiM for it's better DAC, voltage, sinad, everything basically in the music department... and put the AVR in pre-amp mode, connect it to line-in of the WiiM Ultra, which then uses it's line-out and sub-out for the power amp and subwoofer.

I think, from my looking into manuals so far, in terms of voltages it would be OK. I also think volume adjustment (CEC remotes with the Denon) would be OK after some initial adjustments.

The point where the idea turns into something else is probably room correction.

I would not attempt to do 5.1 in that way. FR via the streamer and other speakers via the AVR will probably result in a volume/setup nightmare. I'm thinking about 2.1 only currently.

Thanks!

 

[peng]

But what if I don't want the Denon as music pre-amp and prefer the WiiM for it's better DAC, voltage, sinad, everything basically in the music department... and put the AVR in pre-amp mode, connect it to line-in of the WiiM Ultra, which then uses it's line-out and sub-out for the power amp and subwoofer.

The only way to bypass the AVR dac is to use its analog inputs and use direct or pure direct mode. Connecting it as you described seems convoluted and will not gain anything, may make things worse.

The point where the idea turns into something else is probably room correction.

To use room correction such as Audyssey or Dirac Live (generally preferred by most users, seemingly...), you are going to have to use the AVR one way or another.

If the AVR dac bothers you, the cleanest way to do it is to sell or trade in the 3800 and grab the X6800H or Cinema 30, that's if you really prefer AVRs, that understandably is a great idea if you want to save money and wiring by using the AVR amps to power the surround and height speakers, otherwise the AV30, or AV20 (much preferred imo..) could be good alternatives, in those scenarios, you might sell the WiiM Ultra too if you want to do everything via the AVR. The 6800's, and/or Cinema 30's specs, and projected SINAD (if measured on ASR) are far superior but that doesn't mean that would result in audible differences/improvements in a blind listening test, though it is highly likely it would result in at least easily imagined better sound quality and keep the user happy enough to keep them.

 

[Ruediger]

Thanks for the feedback!

A bigger AVR or AV pre-amp would be nice to have, but I am kind of done with these big, expensive boxes that are often a compromise. Not saying these Marantz models are the same, they sure cost the part though.

I am fully OK with the DAC in the x3800h for hdmi sources. My wish is just to skip the AVR for music while not losing other functionality.

Was also thinking about switching rca to the power amp, or the speakers amp/avr. Also not a clear solution with the subwoofer.

Also oversaw that the WiiM is going to adc/dac the line-in in any case.

 

[peng]

Thanks for the feedback!

A bigger AVR or AV pre-amp would be nice to have, but I am kind of done with these big, expensive boxes that are often a compromise. Not saying these Marantz models are the same, they sure cost the part though.

I am fully OK with the DAC in the x3800h for hdmi sources. My wish is just to skip the AVR for music while not losing other functionality.

Was also thinking about switching rca to the power amp, or the speakers amp/avr. Also not a clear solution with the subwoofer.

Also oversaw that the WiiM is going to adc/dac the line-in in any case.

You can always try using the WiiM Ultra's DAC if you connect its line output to the X3800H's analog input and use Direct mode/Pure Direct mode. That way the signal will only be touched by the Denon's volume control IC and opamps. The Volume IC used is the same as those used in the flagship AVRs and AVPs including the Marantz AV10.

 

[Ruediger]

You can always try using the WiiM Ultra's DAC if you connect its line output to the X3800H's analog input and use Direct mode/Pure Direct mode. That way the signal will only be touched by the Denon's volume control IC and opamps. The Volume IC used is the same as those used in the flagship AVRs and AVPs including the Marantz AV10.

That is my favorite choice with the AVR in the center of the chain. And what I'm currently doing.

Of course I lose the subwoofer in pure direct.

But my sub has line-in and it's own app (SVS SB) with PEQ. I might try going through it on the way to the power amp and leverage his filter.

Many thanks for the volume ic info. That is really helpful to know.

 

[peng]

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That is my favorite choice with the AVR in the center of the chain. And what I'm currently doing.

Of course I lose the subwoofer in pure direct.

But my sub has line-in and it's own app (SVS SB) with PEQ. I might try going through it on the way to the power amp and leverage his filter.

Many thanks for the volume ic info. That is really helpful to know.

When I had the AVR-X1800H, I almost always use analog inputs and direct mode and had the subwoofer output. The X3800H should behave similar, you should be able to have the subouts on, though likely lose bass management. The high models may have bass management retained, with the available 2Ch stereo menu but I am not 100% sure about that, I seem to remember my X4400H (no longer have) has the 2ch stereo menu that allows setting crossover and subout on. You can always ask Denon about it.