AV20 vs. Tide16 vs. APR-16

[Oddball]

Thank you, that's a lot of work, but the information is going to be very useful for those who plan on getting the Tide plus one such switch. In a way, miniDSP, on balance, might have made a good decision as by doing what they have done on the video side, they surely have avoided quite a few potential issues that an inexperienced player in this new field (to them), and able to keep the price at the level significantly lower than the likes of the matured brands/models such as the AV20 and Monolith HTP-1. Then if and when the user feels the itch to upgrade the video side, they have options (paid options that is).

You can't be serious that best practice for AVP is to not care about the "V" part? And HTP-1 is "only" 4 grand, so really in line with Tide, but with full set of mature features. I can see value in Tide buying into future features, but can't see any value in users needing to find their own way to do proper and up to date video. One of the issues with AVPs is audio/video synch. More complex the chain is more likely is that something will go wrong.

 

[peng]

You can't be serious that best practice for AVP is to not care about the "V" part? And HTP-1 is "only" 4 grand, so really in line with Tide, but with full set of mature features. I can see value in Tide buying into future features, but can't see any value in users needing to find their own way to do proper and up to date video. One of the issues with AVPs is audio/video synch. More complex the chain is more likely is that something will go wrong.

I didn’t say that did I? If. did I would edit it out Lol.

 

[Oddball]

I didn’t say that did I? If. did I would edit it out Lol.

You kind of did say "something" to "that" extent? Or should we go into the actual language?

 

[peng]

You kind of did say "something" to "that" extent? Or should we go into the actual language?

Sure, quote the part that I should edit for clarity.

 

[Oddball]

Sure, quote the part that I should edit for clarity.

Let's just forget about it - a bit lazy.

 

[peng]

You can't be serious that best practice for AVP is to not care about the "V" part? And HTP-1 is "only" 4 grand, so really in line with Tide, but with full set of mature features. I can see value in Tide buying into future features, but can't see any value in users needing to find their own way to do proper and up to date video. One of the issues with AVPs is audio/video synch. More complex the chain is more likely is that something will go wrong.

No I would not think it was best practice, in fact I would say it is not but there are viable options though again not the "best" to be clear, imo. I just felt having the option to spend later on features/functionality when there is a need, may be better to some, obvious not all. With reference to the 4K HTP-1, if I am going to have just one such device, that would be my choice too over the Tide, but as I stated very early on, for some or many SINAD chasers, who value the highest attainable SINAD on the preamp/dac outputs, the Tide would likely be their choice if they don't really need HDMI 2.1 and more than 3 inputs yet, and the fact that there are plenty of external devices they could add on if and when they have the need for the 2.1 and more inputs make it a viable choice.

Best practice or not, that is not to say the Tide's V part is not a major disadvantage, of course it is. When the early D+M 3000/4000 series first launch, iirc, there was an issue with the HDMI2.1 section (don't remember the details), but they addressed it by sending the owners an external device (again, don't remember the details), and lots of people still went ahead with their purchases at the time. Even now, D+M still offers Dirac Live DLBC/ART a paid option only, some obviously wish they had included the licenses such that they would be ART ready out of the box but many, including me, would prefer it to remain a paid option, for the same reasons as I am using for the Tide's approach on not launched with HDMI 2.1 and rely on add-on devices.

"paid option" was just the term I used, I really meant external add on such as the often mentioned FD Fury products priced $249 to less than $500 depending on one's need. Such what I considered as paid option is something that imo, actually better in terms of being able to take the pay as yo go approach, so I don't have to spend on something that I may or may not ever use. Of course everyone has their own preference, and it is good that there are choices. By the way, I checked into the FD Fury Arcana products, they do have small foot prints, so the total space for the Tide 16 plus one of those FD Fury thing should still be less than that of a HTP-1.

I would of course, caution those who might want to go for the tide based on SINAD, Amir will likely be reviewing/measuring one soon enough, until we see the results, it better not to assume it would actually perform as good as miniDSP's claimed 118 dB at 4 V as published on their website. I might consider myself a SINAD chaser, but I don't believe 118 dB SINAD is audibly better than 100 or even 90 dB, not for me, but I am just attracted by such devices that perform so much better than others in that regard.

 

[Oddball]

No I would not think it was best practice, in fact I would say it is not but there are viable options though again not the "best" to be clear, imo. I just felt having the option to spend later on features/functionality when there is a need, may be better to some, obvious not all. With reference to the 4K HTP-1, if I am going to have just one such device, that would be my choice too over the Tide, but as I stated very early on, for some or many SINAD chasers, who value the highest attainable SINAD on the preamp/dac outputs, the Tide would likely be their choice if they don't really need HDMI 2.1 and more than 3 inputs yet, and the fact that there are plenty of external devices they could add on if and when they have the need for the 2.1 and more inputs make it a viable choice.

Best practice or not, that is not to say the Tide's V part is not a major disadvantage, of course it is. When the early D+M 3000/4000 series first launch, iirc, there was an issue with the HDMI2.1 section (don't remember the details), but they addressed it by sending the owners an external device (again, don't remember the details), and lots of people still went ahead with their purchases at the time. Even now, D+M still offers Dirac Live DLBC/ART a paid option only, some obviously wish they had included the licenses such that they would be ART ready out of the box but many, including me, would prefer it to remain a paid option, for the same reasons as I am using for the Tide's approach on not launched with HDMI 2.1 and rely on add-on devices.

"paid option" was just the term I used, I really meant external add on such as the often mentioned FD Fury products priced $249 to less than $500 depending on one's need. Such what I considered as paid option is something that imo, actually better in terms of being able to take the pay as yo go approach, so I don't have to spend on something that I may or may not ever use. Of course everyone has their own preference, and it is good that there are choices. By the way, I checked into the FD Fury Arcana products, they do have small foot prints, so the total space for the Tide 16 plus one of those FD Fury thing should still be less than that of a HTP-1.

I would of course, caution those who might want to go for the tide based on SINAD, Amir will likely be reviewing/measuring one soon enough, until we see the results, it better not to assume it would actually perform as good as miniDSP's claimed 118 dB at 4 V as published on their website. I might consider myself a SINAD chaser, but I don't believe 118 dB SINAD is audibly better than 100 or even 90 dB, not for me, but I am just attracted by such devices that perform so much better than others in that regard.

I am just being difficult about video. But my point is valid as stacking up things is a recipe for a disaster.

I recall you took the Kippel test and scored pretty high. I myself could not cross the 50dB mark even if I tried several times. That's probably why I live happily ever after for 15 years with my 5 Rotels that will do only 80dB of SINAD.

 

[peng]

I am just being difficult about video. But my point is valid as stacking up things is a recipe for a disaster.

Actually me too, as sort of SINAD chaser on the audio side, you wouldn't be surprised I want the best on the video side as well right? So, agreed with you, except in such cases I would not consider their approach a recipe for a disaster. You probably remember D+M, so yes Marantz as well had charged $500 (could be wrong if I remember wrong) just a few years ago, for a paid upgrade to HDMI 2.1 for their AV8805, that would be equivalent to the AV8805A, same deal for the Denon AVR-X8500H to X8500HA with HDMI 2.1. That was a little different because at launch time the HDMI 2.1 might not be ready, but the principle/strategy was the same to some extent. Surely some people might not like that either but lots of them obviously still went ahead and order those models but lots of them likely never bother with the upgrade and may still be using those 2.0 version units happily.

Anthem's is actually a better example, I didn't want to wait so I ordered my AVM70 4K HDMI 2.0 version but did trade it in for the HDMI 2.1 8K version a few months later (though for a partially different reason). None of this would change you mind I guess, just that there are precedence even from the bigger popular brands. Anthem tends to have exceptionally loyal customers/fans so there was hardly any complaints on AVSF, not only about that 4K version launch but also there were other major issues such as ARC G wasn't even ready/working for a while, and at least one advertised feature still not available.

I recall you took the Kippel test and scored pretty high. I myself could not cross the 50dB mark even if I tried several times. That's probably why I live happily ever after for 15 years with my 5 Rotels that will do only 80dB of SINAD.

Thanks, I think I score better than Amir Lol.. But there is no way I can tell a difference between even -75 dB THD and -120 dB THD!