AV20 vs. Tide16 vs. APR-16

[PGAMiami]

Interested in everyone’s thoughts on what processor to get regarding the AV20, Tide16 and APR-16. 3 HDMI inputs plus eARC is enough for me. Also, my video is on an 83” Samsung OLED with Xifinity and AppleTV as the only sources. So not much to gain from full HDMI 2.1. I do greatly value CEC volume, power and input swriching. Also Roon and very occasionally Nvidia Shield for immersive HD music. No use for AoiP. Prioritize best possible sound quality for stereo.

Leaning to the Tide16.

Thoughts?

 

[peng]

Interested in everyone’s thoughts on what processor to get regarding the AV20, Tide16 and APR-16. 3 HDMI inputs plus eARC is enough for me. Also, my video is on an 83” Samsung OLED with Xifinity and AppleTV as the only sources. So not much to gain from full HDMI 2.1. I do greatly value CEC volume, power and input swriching. Also Roon and very occasionally Nvidia Shield for immersive HD music. No use for AoiP. Prioritize best possible sound quality for stereo.

Leaning to the Tide16.

Thoughts?

If the Tide has the feature you need then it seems like a better choice for you. It costs less, and on paper it should be better for sound quality though the difference may not be audible, depending on use cases.

 

[EWL5]

I think it's a mistake to lump the AV20 and the APR-16 w/the Tide16 as those are full-fledged AVPs and the Tide16 is not. In other words, the Tide16 is not the "value option" as it's not really apples to apples comparison here.

The Tide16 is a fairly niche product and should be treated as such! As peng says, if the limited features work for you, more power to you!

 

[Comma]

Tide16 here too, like the small form factor for a living room TV cabinet, would love it to be Roon Ready so hoping for that in the future, following up to the release miniDSP Devs seems like they planning to release more features over time which is also my experience with the company, so really can't see me get anything else to replace the SHD than Tide16 and getting some more speakers to play with ART.

 

[peng]

I think it's a mistake to lump the AV20 and the APR-16 w/the Tide16 as those are full-fledged AVPs and the Tide16 is not. In other words, the Tide16 is not the "value option" as it's not really apples to apples comparison here.

The Tide16 is a fairly niche product and should be treated as such! As peng says, if the limited features work for you, more power to you!

I edited “cheap” to costs less, for obvious reasons lol.

 

[vsch]

Depending on how important music listening is to you, support for Auro 2d/3d might shift the needle toward the AV20.

 

[Lsc]

I think it's a mistake to lump the AV20 and the APR-16 w/the Tide16 as those are full-fledged AVPs and the Tide16 is not. In other words, the Tide16 is not the "value option" as it's not really apples to apples comparison here.

The Tide16 is a fairly niche product and should be treated as such! As peng says, if the limited features work for you, more power to you!

Im looking at the AV20 and Tide16 as my 2 options. I’m not sure what you mean by the Tide16 being a niche product.

 

[EWL5]

Im looking at the AV20 and Tide16 as my 2 options. I’m not sure what you mean by the Tide16 being a niche product.

Tide16 is geared towards more DIY folks and less mainstream (though the inclusion of ART means they're trying to get some of that overlap). That's why the more popular options from a full-fledged AVP like Auro-3D, full HDMI 2.1 spec, DynamicEQ, etc. are not included. As there is no alternative room correction, it's all Dirac or nothing!
Jury is still out on if post-calibration Dirac manipulation is possible like on the Storm and HTP-1.

I would only get the Tide16 if I'm not a gamer and care about the ESS Sabre DAC bragging rights (every locale needs a SINAD champ, am I right?).

 

[Littletycoon]

Tide16 is geared towards more DIY folks and less mainstream (though the inclusion of ART means they're trying to get some of that overlap). That's why the more popular options from a full-fledged AVP like Auro-3D, full HDMI 2.1 spec, DynamicEQ, etc. are not included. As there is no alternative room correction, it's all Dirac or nothing!
Jury is still out on if post-calibration Dirac manipulation is possible like on the Storm and HTP-1.

I would only get the Tide16 if I'm not a gamer and care about the ESS Sabre DAC bragging rights (every locale needs a SINAD champ, am I right?).

This does not make sense at all, Tide16 is full fledged AVP. Auro-3D is dead, dynamic eq you would not need and having no alternative rc besides dirac as critique is completely ridiculous, etc. Nothing to do at all with diy (post calibration dirac manipulation I would call diy). As I started with, the above makes no sense at all.

 

[PGAMiami]

Depending on how important music listening is to you, support for Auro 2d/3d might shift the needle toward the AV20.

I don’t use Auro

 

[PGAMiami]

This does not make sense at all, Tide16 is full fledged AVP. Auro-3D is dead, dynamic eq you would not need and having no alternative rc besides dirac as critique is completely ridiculous, etc. Nothing to do at all with diy (post calibration dirac manipulation I would call diy). As I started with, the above makes no sense at all.

Agree, Tide16 seems full featured to me, if you are looking for a state of the art audiophile product.

Seems to me the niche they are going for is clearly stated on their home page, Surround Processing for Audiophiles.

It’s slightly different than gamers or videophiles. And it’s by far the biggest and most expensive miniDSP product.

If anything to me it looks like a shift away from their traditional DIY market, and this may be their biggest challenge without a dealer network or much consumer awareness outside of DIY, lower cost products.

If I was them I’d send one to Kal ASAP and hope he posts a positive review in Stereophile.

 

[EWL5]

This does not make sense at all, Tide16 is full fledged AVP. Auro-3D is dead, dynamic eq you would not need and having no alternative rc besides dirac as critique is completely ridiculous, etc. Nothing to do at all with diy (post calibration dirac manipulation I would call diy). As I started with, the above makes no sense at all.

Ok, you don't believe me when I call the Tide16 "niche". What if the manufacturer, miniDSP, said it themselves?

“Tide16 is competing with consumer AVRs or high‑end AVPs.”
Not quite—and here’s why.

A miniDSP product, whether it’s a Flex or a Tide16, doesn’t really sit in the same category as either mass‑market AVRs or ultra‑high‑end AV processors. Yes, Tide16 has HDMI, Atmos/DTS:X, advanced processing and analog outputs, so on the surface it looks comparable. But the design philosophy and target audience are very different.

On the consumer AVR side
We’re not Sony, Denon, Yamaha, Marantz, Onkyo or any of the big consumer brands—and we’re not trying to be. Tide16 offers niche capabilities you simply won’t find in mainstream AVRs, like multi‑way crossovers and full control over the entire signal chain. Most casual users don’t need (or want) that level of flexibility.

Tide16 is designed so anyone can use it, but you’ll still want to read the manual. Flexibility always comes with a bit of complexity. And pricing expectations are different too—if someone is looking for a 1k USD AVP, Press-One-Button-Does-It-All, I'm afraid that Tide16 isn’t going to fit that mold.

Tide16 facts from the horse's mouth

As Tide16 rolled out a few days ago, we’ve been keeping an eye on the forums to see the chatter—and honestly, we’re grateful for all of it, positive or negative. It’s still early days, and without the full user manual out yet, it’s natural that s...

support.minidsp.com

 

[EWL5]

Y'all are more than welcome to prove me wrong once you get your hands on it. I really don't want to hear "Tide16 doesn't do this" or "Tide16 doesn't do that" once you get a couple of hours in...

Edit: by the way, this was already covered in the longer 65-page thread so we really didn't need another one...

 

[Littletycoon]

Y'all are more than welcome to prove me wrong once you get your hands on it. I really don't want to hear "Tide16 doesn't do this" or "Tide16 doesn't do that" once you get a couple of hours in...

Edit: by the way, this was already covered in the longer 65-page thread so we really didn't need another one...

Why would anybody want to prove you wrong, this is not a pissing contest. Who cares what you do or don't want to "hear", as it is also not up to you to determine whether a thread is needed or not.

 

[Lsc]

Y'all are more than welcome to prove me wrong once you get your hands on it. I really don't want to hear "Tide16 doesn't do this" or "Tide16 doesn't do that" once you get a couple of hours in...

Edit: by the way, this was already covered in the longer 65-page thread so we really didn't need another one...

I expect the Tide16 to output stereo. Dolby and DTS like my lowly XMC2. I’m hoping for a very good crossover so I can continue to have outstanding stereo sound that incorporates my subs (I can then sell my 2 ch preamp). ART is a huge part of this. I have no idea what other features that a “mainstream” processor has but I don’t need whatever they are. Maybe the hdmi switching is slow like the old Emotiva (it’s faster after the latest firmware).

I hear you on what MiniDSP said but that seems like a lot of marketing speak to separate itself from the “mainstream” that usually translates to lower sound quality. Honestly since they said it’s for audiophiles, that means it’s not for any of us in ASR.

 

[PGAMiami]

Back to my original question, my priorities are 1) best possible audio from Apple Music, Roon, Tidal and Qobuz, 2) reliable CEC control of volume, input and power, 3) fully functional eARC, and 4) no degradation of 4k video or audio from Roon, Apple TV, Shield and Xfinity sources. Don’t need gaming, AioP, or multi room. Tide16 seems to check all the boxes. Some have commented the Hyperion may be better built. It does use higher end DACs but the Tide16 uses a very cleaver 4 DAC per channel implementation that should be very comparable. What remains in how buggy the Dirac, CEC and HDMI implementation will be right out of the box, versus Marantz that’s been at this for years.

 

[Lsc]

Back to my original question, my priorities are 1) best possible audio from Apple Music, Roon, Tidal and Qobuz, 2) reliable CEC control of volume, input and power, 3) fully functional eARC, and 4) no degradation of 4k video or audio from Roon, Apple TV, Shield and Xfinity sources. Don’t need gaming, AioP, or multi room. Tide16 seems to check all the boxes. Some have commented the Hyperion may be better built. It does use higher end DACs but the Tide16 uses a very cleaver 4 DAC per channel implementation that should be very comparable. What remains in how buggy the Dirac, CEC and HDMI implementation will be right out of the box, versus Marantz that’s been at this for years.

Your priorities align with mine. Sound quality is the most important and with my limited number of sources the Tide16 checks most of the boxes with the main exception being hdmi 2.1. Hopefully no HDMI or CEC bugs but I’m unfortunately kind of used it with my current processor. With it being a 2.0 processor, ARC has to work well since my PS5 will be connected directly to the Tide16.

Boy, if the Tide16 can replace my 2 channel path it would be quite a deal and will both simplify and put a few bucks back in my pocket. No extra preamp and active crossover needed.

 

[PGAMiami]

Your priorities align with mine. Sound quality is the most important and with my limited number of sources the Tide16 checks most of the boxes with the main exception being hdmi 2.1. Hopefully no HDMI or CEC bugs but I’m unfortunately kind of used it with my current processor. With it being a 2.0 processor, ARC has to work well since my PS5 will be connected directly to the Tide16.

Boy, if the Tide16 can replace my 2 channel path it would be quite a deal and will both simplify and put a few bucks back in my pocket. No extra preamp and active crossover needed.

My two channel path is boxed up, as even with a 4800h Dirac ART is that good, especially integrating my subs with everything else. As mentioned above, the DACs in the APR-16 are slightly better than what’s in the Tide16. So it’s all about the implementation.

Both boxes on paper and visually look very well designed with minimal wires and air cooling, much cleaner than a D&M product or even a Trinnov or Storm. The other question is ART vs Waveforming.

My sense is that unless you have your subs perfectly set up and your willing to use a relatively high crossover point, ART should outperform. I like having my TADs going down as low as possible so I use 40hz which is above the port tuning to avoid phase issues.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

If the Tide allows additional tweaks in addition to Dirac then I am going for it. Bit if Minidsp lock it down like they have done with the Flex HT series then I'm going for an AV20 because it has 4 subwoofer outputs. It also depends on the number filters/taps etc of the Tide.

 

[Lsc]

My two channel path is boxed up, as even with a 4800h Dirac ART is that good, especially integrating my subs with everything else. As mentioned above, the DACs in the APR-16 are slightly better than what’s in the Tide16. So it’s all about the implementation.

Both boxes on paper and visually look very well designed with minimal wires and air cooling, much cleaner than a D&M product or even a Trinnov or Storm. The other question is ART vs Waveforming.

My sense is that unless you have your subs perfectly set up and your willing to use a relatively high crossover point, ART should outperform. I like having my TADs going down as low as possible so I use 40hz which is above the port tuning to avoid phase issues.

The question of waveforming or ART at least in my situation is a simple answer. ART because I can actually afford it .

In my 2 channel I use a high crossover point for low-pass: 105 Hz but a low crossover point for high-pass: 45 Hz. You situation seems different with the mighty TAD but in my case while the salon2 has very very good bass, the Gothams’ bass is superior especially with deep bass. There is no way that I would have achieved this quality bass with just the lowly XMC2 and the simple HT xover. Since you have ART things are probably a lot different on your neck of the woods based on your comments. This “limitless” bass (for music) where when you turn the volume up it just scales up with zero compression and zero listening fatigue and fills the room to the point it’s scary…it’s so satisfying. I think you probably understand what I’m saying but to even a higher scale…that super tight musical bass that I’m sure the TAD has in droves.

If the XMC2 wasn’t such a dog with the occasional no sound issue, I really don’t need to change anything. But in this hobby curiosity always kicks in and hopefully the Tide16 can equal or even improve on it with ART. Plus my good old Theta Casanova just started dying.