• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

AV Pre-Pro and bi-amping

Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Messages
48
Likes
3
#1
Hi all,

I couldn't find any AV pre-pro with 2 sets of L/R XLR outputs for bi-amping (by just browsing the web). Looking at some user manuals (Arcam AV40, Monoprice HTP1, Anthem AVM60), it seems that XLR channels cannot be reassigned.

Does that mean that using a XLR splitter is the only solution? Doing so will result in dividing the output voltage by 2, isn't it?

This would be a real problem: most of modern pre-pros already struggle to output 4Vrms with a decent SINAD. Outputting 8Vrms (to get 2x4 Vrms) would result in a poor SINAD. Otherwise, with a decent SINAD, we have to deal with 2Vrms which is like a RCA output. This requires higher gain power amps compared to a 4V XLR.

Is there a pre-pro able to output 8Vrms at 0 dB with a decent SINAD?

Thanks in advance for your help! :)
 

RayDunzl

Major Contributor
Central Scrutinizer
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
11,170
Likes
11,181
Location
Riverview FL
#2
I couldn't find any AV pre-pro with 2 sets of L/R XLR outputs for bi-amping (by just browsing the web). Looking at some user manuals (Arcam AV40, Monoprice HTP1, Anthem AVM60), it seems that XLR channels cannot be reassigned.

Does that mean that using a XLR splitter is the only solution?

Doing so will result in dividing the output voltage by 2, isn't it?

No.
 
Last edited:

Kal Rubinson

Major Contributor
Industry Insider
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
2,959
Likes
4,348
Location
NYC/CT
#3
I couldn't find any AV pre-pro with 2 sets of L/R XLR outputs for bi-amping (by just browsing the web). Looking at some user manuals (Arcam AV40, Monoprice HTP1, Anthem AVM60), it seems that XLR channels cannot be reassigned.

Does that mean that using a XLR splitter is the only solution? Doing so will result in dividing the output voltage by 2, isn't it?
No. It is not the solution.
 

waynel

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
742
Likes
849
#6
What would you suggest instead?
It’s not clear what you are trying to do , are you using active crossovers? What speaker are you trying to bi-amp with which amps and why?
 
OP
P
Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Messages
48
Likes
3
Thread Starter #7
It’s not clear what you are trying to do , are you using active crossovers? What speaker are you trying to bi-amp with which amps and why?
This is not clear from my former post indeed, sorry for that.

Consider the following pure stereo system: streamer —> DAC with 2 sets of L/R XLR output (like okto DAC8 stereo) —> 2 stereo power amps —> speakers. You can put an active crossover on the path if you want active biamping. Say this is your reference system.

Now I want to use the same power amps and speakers for L/R in a HT setup.
The best way I could do that (at the moment) is putting a Y XLR cable for L/R channels from the pre-pro and use a 4-in-2 XLR switch for each channel L/R. I was concerned with a reduction of voltage coming from the pre-pro by splitting the XLR channels but this seems to be wrong.

Is there a cleaner way to do that?
Thanks
 

waynel

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
742
Likes
849
#8
This is not clear from my former post indeed, sorry for that.

Consider the following pure stereo system: streamer —> DAC with 2 sets of L/R XLR output (like okto DAC8 stereo) —> 2 stereo power amps —> speakers. You can put an active crossover on the path if you want active biamping. Say this is your reference system.

Now I want to use the same power amps and speakers for L/R in a HT setup.
The best way I could do that (at the moment) is putting a Y XLR cable for L/R channels from the pre-pro and use a 4-in-2 XLR switch for each channel L/R. I was concerned with a reduction of voltage coming from the pre-pro by splitting the XLR channels but this seems to be wrong.

Is there a cleaner way to do that?
Thanks
Can you be more specific? What crossover are you using? Which speakers? Which amps? Why are you bi-amping?
 
OP
P
Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Messages
48
Likes
3
Thread Starter #10
Can you be more specific? What crossover are you using? Which speakers? Which amps? Why are you bi-amping?
Power amps will be 2 purifi stereo connected to dac8 stereo (4 XLR outputs). All in the process to be ordered. Currently have MA Platinum PL200 II for L/R speakers. Will be doing passive bi-amping until I buy a new pair of speakers with no internal Xover to allow active bi-amping (beginning next year).

I'm also in the process to buy an AV pre-pro.

Please I don't want to transform this post into a discussion around usefulness of biamping. Take it as a fixed assumption of the problem.

All people doing passive or active bi-amping with their stereo system and wanting a HT setup must have the same problem as me.
What do they do? Using 4-in-2 XLR switch box? Unless of course they have 2 pairs of L/R speakers.

Is there a dac/preamp with 2 pairs of L/R HT bypass?

Thanks
 

Kal Rubinson

Major Contributor
Industry Insider
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
2,959
Likes
4,348
Location
NYC/CT
#11
If you are using an active crossover with one source, there should be no passive in-box crossover in use.
That is not compatible with sending full-range to those speakers.
Why not send a digital stereo signal from the HT to the Dac8 and use the active C/O as planned?

(I was being glib about the splitter and, of course, one can do that if one chooses.)
 

Certainkindoffool

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
195
Likes
133
Location
Kitchener, Ontario
#12
This is not clear from my former post indeed, sorry for that.

Consider the following pure stereo system: streamer —> DAC with 2 sets of L/R XLR output (like okto DAC8 stereo) —> 2 stereo power amps —> speakers. You can put an active crossover on the path if you want active biamping. Say this is your reference system.

Now I want to use the same power amps and speakers for L/R in a HT setup.
The best way I could do that (at the moment) is putting a Y XLR cable for L/R channels from the pre-pro and use a 4-in-2 XLR switch for each channel L/R. I was concerned with a reduction of voltage coming from the pre-pro by splitting the XLR channels but this seems to be wrong.

Is there a cleaner way to do that?
Thanks
When playing around with this I used a behringer dcx 2496, which is ballanced and served as an electronic crossover as well. It was cheap and has eq capabilities, but has a clunky interface and is reportedly outclassed by minidsp's solutions.
 
OP
P
Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Messages
48
Likes
3
Thread Starter #13
If you are using an active crossover with one source, there should be no passive in-box crossover in use.
That is not compatible with sending full-range to those speakers.)
I'm not following you, sorry. What I was thinking about is an analogue Xover just after the 4-in-2 XLR switch box.
 
OP
P
Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Messages
48
Likes
3
Thread Starter #14
Why not send a digital stereo signal from the HT to the Dac8 and use the active C/O as planned?

(I was being glib about the splitter and, of course, one can do that if one chooses.)
Are you saying I can send digital signal for L/R only to dac8 and using at the same time XLR outputs from the pre-pro for the other channels? Didn't know we could do that.... Am I understanding properly?
 
OP
P
Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Messages
48
Likes
3
Thread Starter #15
When playing around with this I used a behringer dcx 2496, which is ballanced and served as an electronic crossover as well. It was cheap and has eq capabilities, but has a clunky interface and is reportedly outclassed by minidsp's solutions.
Thanks fir the suggestion I'm going to google that.
 

Kal Rubinson

Major Contributor
Industry Insider
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
2,959
Likes
4,348
Location
NYC/CT
#16
Are you saying I can send digital signal for L/R only to dac8 and using at the same time XLR outputs from the pre-pro for the other channels? Didn't know we could do that.... Am I understanding properly?
I have not done that but why not? Depends on your AVR/prepro.
 
Joined
Apr 6, 2016
Messages
63
Likes
59
#17
Why don't you just use the bi-amped L/R as is in HT mode?? That's what I do. Not sure what you want to do.

Rob :)
 
OP
P
Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Messages
48
Likes
3
Thread Starter #18
I have not done that but why not? Depends on your AVR/prepro.
Looking at the monolith htp1 it seems that there's no digital outputs (if I see clearly). On the AV40 and AVM60 there are optical outputs. How can I select L/R only?
 

waynel

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
742
Likes
849
#19
There are a lot of issues raised in your post.

1) there is no point in passive biamping
2) if you are going to use active crossovers it’s better to do this digitally
3) if using digital crossovers you don’t want a DAC8 stereo, you want a DAC8 pro
4) for analog crossovers Ashly makes a decent one but i know of no analog crossover that won’t be the SINAD bottleneck if you are using an Okto DAC8 and PuriFI amps

Why not figure out where the crossovers are going to be before we figure out the HT bypass mode?
 
Last edited:
OP
P
Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Messages
48
Likes
3
Thread Starter #20
Why don't you just use the bi-amped L/R as is in HT mode?? That's what I do. Not sure what you want to do.

Rob :)
Hi Rob, I want to use bi-amped speakers (from a separate stereo system) for HT. I could do that by using Y XLR cables from AV prepro (for both L/R) and then a 4-in-2 XLR switch box before each stereo power amp. I was just looking for something neater.

Kal's idea is theoretically nice but I don't see how this could work in practice....
 

Similar threads

Top Bottom