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[stvnharr]

Juan,
I have made a small edit in my previous post, addressing what I stated in Post #5 about the value of anecdotal listening experiences. It is all right there in Post #5!

I think you are trying to tell me that you explained everything that needed to be explained in your Post #97. Thank You.

The audio system needs to be completely silent when powered on. I just assumed that, and I did not think it needed to be stated.
Same goes for your earlier mention of furniture and floor vibrations.
If you have these hum and vibration issues, as you have mentioned, they need to be addressed before anything else. The audio system can indeed be made to be completely silent when powered on, even with your ear up against the speaker cone.

If my contextual use of the term "noise floor" was incorrect and inappropriate, okay, fair enough.
Unfortunately, it seems to have become a distraction from the actual thread subject.

Lastly, while my experience with the thread subject has been good, I don't think it means too much to anyone else. It is just one view.

Steve

 

[egellings]

"The noise floor of speakers is the inherent level of unwanted background noise generated by the speaker system itself and its environment when no intentional audio signal is playing."

Speakers respond only to electrical signals fed to them. No signal, no acoustical output. None. A speaker can generate noise while being played, such as that generated by a rubbing voice coil or something loose on it rattling in response to vibration. An unenergized speaker has no known way to generate noise on its own. I suppose that an unenergized speaker could generate noise with very loud sound present, causing it to vibrate sympathetically with the loud sound source, generating a bit of completely drowned-out noise in the process. With a speaker, in short, no 'lectric[sic], no noise.

 

[sq225917]

Speaker cabinets vibrate, this energy can be coupled to resonant surfaces through physical contact, yes we're all in agreement.

But the idea that this is likely audible at typical volume levels, mmmmm. It would have to heroically bad choices of support surface, like a lightweight work desk or similar.

No need for fancy magic devices, anything soft and stable will do the job.

 

[Juanrdp]

No signal, no acoustical output. None.

No signal didn't means that the speaker is unenergized. We are talking of a powered system with the amplifier, DAC or turtable powered, etc.. (and of course all cables connected).

You could have not an active signal being reproduced but the system (specially the amplifiers) could produce enough 'residual' signal on the speakers line to get the cones to move.

Try to increase the amplifier volume to the max without any signal (and don't forget to lower it after the test xD) probably you get a clear buzz from the speakers, specially if it's a class A (a class A amp offten have almost the same current draw from the plug without signal that when at max signal) or Tube amp.

A speaker can generate noise while being played, such as that generated by a rubbing voice coil or something loose on it rattling in response to vibration.

A rubbing voice coil speaker is not going to live long xD, and often that only happens at very high volume levels. In the test of the speakers is measured by the distortion values at very high db's values.

And if something is loose and rattling within the speaker, powered or unpowered... seriously that's a faulty speaker.

An unenergized speaker has no known way to generate noise on its own.

But a speaker in a powered on system without input sound signal is energized.

I suppose that an unenergized speaker could generate noise with very loud sound present, causing it to vibrate sympathetically with the loud sound source, generating a bit of completely drowned-out noise in the process.

In a proper build speaker cabinet is no way in my opinion that the vibration induced by a very loud sound (outside very specific cases like just reproducing a matching resonance frecuency that could induce the cabinet) could generate any noise that is audible by any means compared with the 'very loud sound'.

In truth, it's just the opposite, an unenergized speaker in a very loud sound environment will generate a signal (it create a signal like a microphone, they are basically the same) by inducing an small voltage on the audio lines.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Speakers respond only to electrical signals fed to them. No signal, no acoustical output. None. A speaker can generate noise while being played, such as that generated by a rubbing voice coil or something loose on it rattling in response to vibration. An unenergized speaker has no known way to generate noise on its own. I suppose that an unenergized speaker could generate noise with very loud sound present, causing it to vibrate sympathetically with the loud sound source, generating a bit of completely drowned-out noise in the process. With a speaker, in short, no 'lectric[sic], no noise.

"The noise floor of speakers is the inherent level of unwanted background noise generated by the speaker system itself and its environment when no intentional audio signal is playing."

 

[DVinylfan]

available without flight case for £2.94

 

[caught gesture]

Or something like these…

Or what about…

Cut out as many footers as you need!

 

[DVinylfan]

and, if the budget allows..

 

[Juanrdp]

Or something like these…
...
Cut out as many footers as you need!

I raise the bet....

With 2.19€ for 125 you could get at least 30 speakers for 0.07€ each

 

[DVinylfan]

try these, suckers

 

[egellings]

What is the mechanism enabling a stand-alone speaker to generate noise with no electrical input? No quantum mechanics, please.

 

[egellings]

No signal didn't means that the speaker is unenergized. We are talking of a powered system with the amplifier, DAC or turtable powered, etc.. (and of course all cables connected).

You could have not an active signal being reproduced but the system (specially the amplifiers) could produce enough 'residual' signal on the speakers line to get the cones to move.

Try to increase the amplifier volume to the max without any signal (and don't forget to lower it after the test xD) probably you get a clear buzz from the speakers, specially if it's a class A (a class A amp offten have almost the same current draw from the plug without signal that when at max signal) or Tube amp.


A rubbing voice coil speaker is not going to live long xD, and often that only happens at very high volume levels. In the test of the speakers is measured by the distortion values at very high db's values.

And if something is loose and rattling within the speaker, powered or unpowered... seriously that's a faulty speaker.


But a speaker in a powered on system without input sound signal is energized.


In a proper build speaker cabinet is no way in my opinion that the vibration induced by a very loud sound (outside very specific cases like just reproducing a matching resonance frecuency that could induce the cabinet) could generate any noise that is audible by any means compared with the 'very loud sound'.

In truth, it's just the opposite, an unenergized speaker in a very loud sound environment will generate a signal (it create a signal like a microphone, they are basically the same) by inducing an small voltage on the audio lines.

The rubbing coil will make noise for as long as it lasts, though. Agree, a rattling speaker is a bad one. A speaker connected to a powered, silent power amp will maybe be energized by any DC offset on the amp's output terminals and by any noise, such as hiss or hum. Absent those sources, the speaker is not energized; its terminals are merely shorted together by the amplifier's usually very low output impedance. A near dead short is not an energizing feature. Absent any time varying input signal or a DC offset, a speaker connected to a working amp's output is not energized-Its terminals are merely shorted together by the amp's low Z output terminals.

 

[DVinylfan]

What is the mechanism enabling a stand-alone speaker to generate noise with no electrical input? No quantum mechanics, please.

I do recall back in the 1980's and beyond that many hifi retailers proudly advertised having "single speaker demonstration rooms". Which was to say equipment was demonstrated in a listening room containing only one pair of speakers.
I inferred at the time that the rationale for this was that, if played in a room full of other speakers, the speakers being played would somehow excite the drivers of the other speakers, creating distortion in the room.
I don't know if that was the actual reason, or if I dreamt up that rationale, or it was just the fact that people prefer to audition equipment in a room that isn't cluttered up with loads of speakers.

 

[Mart68]

I do recall back in the 1980's and beyond that many hifi retailers proudly advertised having "single speaker demonstration rooms". Which was to say equipment was demonstrated in a listening room containing only one pair of speakers.
I inferred at the time that the rationale for this was that, if played in a room full of other speakers, the speakers being played would somehow excite the drivers of the other speakers, creating distortion in the room.
I don't know if that was the actual reason, or if I dreamt up that rationale, or it was just the fact that people prefer to audition equipment in a room that isn't cluttered up with loads of speakers.

That was the actual reason. Linn insisted that their dealers demo their speakers in isolation.

Cynics claimed that this was so the customer could not easily swap between their speaker and a competitors.

Discussed here in Stereophile back in 1985

Controversy: The Single Speaker Dem Myth | Stereophile.com

Bill Sommerwerck: The more intelligent you are, the less you know. I don't mean just the obvious use of "know," where one rigidly holds certain beliefs as absolute. I'm also suggesting that the properly disciplined mind replaces a lot of specific facts with a few generalities. The inductive...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Purité Audio]

Linn poor product excellent marketing, not sure that has changed.
Keith

 

[egellings]

I do recall back in the 1980's and beyond that many hifi retailers proudly advertised having "single speaker demonstration rooms". Which was to say equipment was demonstrated in a listening room containing only one pair of speakers.
I inferred at the time that the rationale for this was that, if played in a room full of other speakers, the speakers being played would somehow excite the drivers of the other speakers, creating distortion in the room.
I don't know if that was the actual reason, or if I dreamt up that rationale, or it was just the fact that people prefer to audition equipment in a room that isn't cluttered up with loads of speakers.

Single speaker demos make sense, because other speakers in the room can vibrate sympathetically, excited by the sound waves from the auditioned speaker in the room, and that could affect what is heard. Two ways to excite a speaker: feed it electrical audio signals, or mechanically move its vibrating surfaces externally, as with sound waves. Another way to reduce the effect of other speakers in the room is to short those speakers' input terminals together. Back EMF in the speakers' motors will work to buck the drivers' vibrations and damp (reduce) them. Removal of the unauditioned speakers would likely be the best choice.

 

[Tia4]

Hi I’ve just joined tonight, could any tell me if I should buy this product, it’s £1500 and I’ve demd it for 10 days and sound good In my system but it’s now obsolete but it comes with a yrs warranty, any suggestions are appreciated.Thanks in advance,I have to make my mind up by tomorrow ‍

 

[voodooless]

Hi I’ve just joined tonight, could any tell me if I should buy this product, it’s £1500 and I’ve demd it for 10 days and sound good In my system but it’s now obsolete but it comes with a yrs warranty, any suggestions are appreciated.Thanks in advance,I have to make my mind up by tomorrow ‍

Why would you ask this in a topic about speaker footers? Best start your one topic on it.

 

[Tia4]

Hi I can’t find where to post my question on the forum

 

[voodooless]

Hi I can’t find where to post my question on the forum

Button at the top called “new thread” or “post thread”, on the main forum page.