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Auro upmixing questions

tifune

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I'm consistently reading about how great stereo upmixing is with Auro, so I'm looking into the cost and design. I'm really confused on a few points:

Is there a limit, either technically or practically, on stereo upmixing with Auro? One doc I found suggests 7.1.4 but it's 5 years old.

Is there a layout that meets compatibility requirements for all surround formats? DTS:X, Auro, Atmos etc. I see a few options published by Denon/Marantz and Auro that are probably close enough, but just want to be sure I'm not missing something better

Are there any Auro upmixing codecs available for a HTPC? Win10 preferred but Mac will work

In a traditional HT setup, LCR are historically considered the most important and where the majority of budget should be placed. Does that hold true with stereo upmixing?

I realize there are a lot of factors that go into what's "practical" but like most I'm searching for the most versatile option without spending unnecessarily. If the difference between layouts is something small like the VOG speaker, that's fine but I'd hate to have a whole height layer (for example) being unused when switching between 2ch/multi-channel playback

If it helps, my listening space is about 20x20x13-18' (sloped ceiling). But the room itself is about 25x40'. Number of channels that make the most sense will dictate what processor I buy - probably Denon Or Marantz 8015 because multiple zones would be really useful but I could easily work with something like the HTP-1 since it has a stereo out. a HTPC w JRiver would be even better but I have yet to find an Auro upmix codec.

Thank you!!
 

Golfx

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I'm consistently reading about how great stereo upmixing is with Auro, so I'm looking into the cost and design. I'm really confused on a few points:

Is there a limit, either technically or practically, on stereo upmixing with Auro? One doc I found suggests 7.1.4 but it's 5 years old.

Is there a layout that meets compatibility requirements for all surround formats? DTS:X, Auro, Atmos etc. I see a few options published by Denon/Marantz and Auro that are probably close enough, but just want to be sure I'm not missing something better

Are there any Auro upmixing codecs available for a HTPC? Win10 preferred but Mac will work

In a traditional HT setup, LCR are historically considered the most important and where the majority of budget should be placed. Does that hold true with stereo upmixing?

I realize there are a lot of factors that go into what's "practical" but like most I'm searching for the most versatile option without spending unnecessarily. If the difference between layouts is something small like the VOG speaker, that's fine but I'd hate to have a whole height layer (for example) being unused when switching between 2ch/multi-channel playback

If it helps, my listening space is about 20x20x13-18' (sloped ceiling). But the room itself is about 25x40'. Number of channels that make the most sense will dictate what processor I buy - probably Denon Or Marantz 8015 because multiple zones would be really useful but I could easily work with something like the HTP-1 since it has a stereo out. a HTPC w JRiver would be even better but I have yet to find an Auro upmix codec.

Thank you!!

i currently own a Denon AVR A110 serving as a prepro for a 7.2.4 system. Previously owned a Marantz SR 8912. I have almost totally converted to listening to amazon music HD via HEOS in Auro 3D. It is just much warmer and more immersive than stereo. The denon allows you to switch back and forth easily for comparison. I do not have a VOG speaker as I have a vaulted ceiling but my center channel speaker is mounted high over the tv. My front LCR are my best speakers (polk legends L 800 & 400) and dominate the sound. The added heights & surrounds just add immersion in AURO 3D better than any other multichannel mode.
 

wseroyer

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i currently own a Denon AVR A110 serving as a prepro for a 7.2.4 system. Previously owned a Marantz SR 8912. I have almost totally converted to listening to amazon music HD via HEOS in Auro 3D. It is just much warmer and more immersive than stereo. The denon allows you to switch back and forth easily for comparison. I do not have a VOG speaker as I have a vaulted ceiling but my center channel speaker is mounted high over the tv. My front LCR are my best speakers (polk legends L 800 & 400) and dominate the sound. The added heights & surrounds just add immersion in AURO 3D better than any other multichannel mode.
You should try putting your center under the TV and going for center height speaker AURO 3D and DTS:X will take advantage of it.
 

Golfx

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Oh I have an active fireplace under my tv. Good suggestion though.
 
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tifune

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Oh I have an active fireplace under my tv. Good suggestion though.
I assume your L/R are typical height? Do you find it distracting to have the C so far above the L/R? I have a UST projector now, and center channel placement is quite challenging. The R3's do a decent phantom center in a limited number of seats, but too far outside the triangle and people comment they can't understand the dialogue.

First I'm trying a Kef 8003 just under the projected image, simply because it's the minimum effort. But, failing that, I might have to drill some holes and mount above like you mentioned. But then I permanently lose the option of using a center height; for Auro upmixing, not sure how much that really adds.
 

Golfx

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Regarding the center I have no choice with its high location. I grown quite accustomed to its location. In movies I just don’t notice. In music if I use Auro 3d, the center is the same height as the front heights which are directly over the mains. I actually prefer the “wall” of sound presented to the main listening position. My mains, center, surrounds, and heights are all voice matched perlistens now. I’m waiting for the trinnov to add 2.1. It’s room EQ can help with lowering the perception of where the center speaker is presenting from.
 

Soundmixer

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In a traditional HT setup, LCR are historically considered the most important and where the majority of budget should be placed. Does that hold true with stereo upmixing?
I would say yes, but you cannot ignore the contributions of the surround and height channels. Ideally, all of the speakers in all of these immersive formats should have the same performance qualities (frequency response and peak amplitude characteristics) and timbre. With both movies and music, the three front speakers do carry the most important information.
 
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tifune

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I would say yes, but you cannot ignore the contributions of the surround and height channels. Ideally, all of the speakers in all of these immersive formats should have the same performance qualities (frequency response and peak amplitude characteristics) and timbre. With both movies and music, the three front speakers do carry the most important information.

I've always been confused about the 'timbre' part. No matter how many times I've asked around, i don't feel like I've ever gotten a straight answer as to what that actually means. How can i correlate it based on measurements and/or design, etc. The typical reply is 'just buy in the same series' which is fair but I'm hoping to go a little deeper than that for my own understanding. Your FR and amplitude examples are really helpful, though, thank you for that!

My mains, center, surrounds, and heights are all voice matched perlistens now. I’m waiting for the trinnov to add 2.1. It’s room EQ can help with lowering the perception of where the center speaker is presenting from.

When you say 'voice matched' do you mean identical, or maybe towers on the floor + bookshelfs for height? Can you recommend a link to the Trinnov feature you're describing? I've had a little luck improving the phantom center by moving from Kef R3's to R5's, which I didn't really expect. The extra driver, even though it's smaller, seemed to make the image 'taller' if that makes any sense.
 

Golfx

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I mean they are identical tweeters, midranges and woofers by same company. The remapping by the trinnov has no single link to be easily digested. They have an online manual. What you would look for is their 3D remapping in the optimizer section. Also mentioned on a few youtube videos. https://www.trinnov.com/en/technologies/. link starts the conversation
 

Soundmixer

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I've always been confused about the 'timbre' part. No matter how many times I've asked around, i don't feel like I've ever gotten a straight answer as to what that actually means. How can i correlate it based on measurements and/or design, etc. The typical reply is 'just buy in the same series' which is fair but I'm hoping to go a little deeper than that for my own understanding. Your FR and amplitude examples are really helpful, though, thank you for that!
Meaning of Timbre;

"the character or quality of a musical sound or voice as distinct from its pitch and intensity."

In other words, the voicing of the speaker. If you mix a speaker that is "voiced" brighter than another, the sound will change character as it moves through that speaker. I have the ability to position an object anywhere in space with X and Atmos, so I don't want the sound to change character when I do
 
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