Audyssey's Next Generation of Room Correction (MultEQ-X)

[Weeb Labs]

My guess is it's for two reasons. First is for familiarity. Second is for compatibility with filters generated in REW.

It wouldn't impact PEQ entry, though. It would just be an option hidden under an "Advanced" menu for those familiar with it.

 

[Sal1950]

I have two subs for better bass for my sweet spot first, and for better bass for the other seats second. I think multiple subs only being good for a wider area is a misconception.

Absolutely, using multipul subs in varied locations allows us to smooth the FR at the ML without extreme use of EQ! I only have one seat possible in the listening area so that's the focused goal.
I been using 6 points for some time now, the ML, 16" to the l & r, and the same three about 16" to the front of the first three. This has work quite well for me. My lounge chair is just off the rear wall and everything I've read has warned not to do measurements close to a wall and that only makes sense to me so I skip the rear.

I'm not a coder but I am a bit confused on the mic issue. Since AFAIK all the measurement are being done and fed into the program running in the PC. So why is it such a problem to use a umik with it's individual calibration file while plugged into the PC's USB?
No huge issue in any case since if you want to be accurate, you will go back and measure the results with REW and your Umik, then tweak the Audyssey calibration as needed.
Nothing and no body is perfect, remember what they did to the last guy that was perfect.

 

[KMO]

I'm not a coder but I am a bit confused on the mic issue. Since AFAIK all the measurement are being done and fed into the program running in the PC. So why is it such a problem to use a umik with it's individual calibration file while plugged into the PC's USB?

Well, it's a whole extra sort of work they just currently don't do. At the minute they have no support for any microphones on anything other than the AVR. The whole thing is built around the AVR doing its sweep and sending the data off for analysis. That's the way it's always worked, including Audyssey Pro.

And you can't get the PC to produce the sweeps straightforwardly because you can't control individual speakers in the way the AVR can. Even if you could produce an Atmos stream, I'm not sure you could directly control one specific height speaker discretely.

And when the AVR's producing the sweeps, they don't have the mechanism to co-ordinate with the PC for stuff like "that sweep was bad, do it again". It's an automated process using the inbuilt mic. There won't be a "sweep FL now" command the PC can send to it. At least not in current versions.

Basically, it's a huge amount of work compared to "port the control app back to PC resurrecting some of the Audyssey Pro functions and a bit more".

 

[Sal1950]

Basically, it's a huge amount of work compared to "port the control app back to PC resurrecting som

Thanks for some insight. As I mentioned, I'm not really concerned with it as we can all use REW later.
I just know that the designers will get a lot over flak this.
I do believe this release was a very limited one designed mainly to make owners of older gear happy. The future is sure to bring updates that will make it more directly competitive with the top levels of Dirac.
We shall see.

 

[Chromatischism]

Well, it's a whole extra sort of work they just currently don't do. At the minute they have no support for any microphones on anything other than the AVR. The whole thing is built around the AVR doing its sweep and sending the data off for analysis. That's the way it's always worked, including Audyssey Pro.

That's the key. The AVR is doing all of the work, still. They can expose additional controls and tweaking options but at this point they can't reengineer Audyssey itself unless Sound United opens up the box.

 

[jhaider]

The EQ filters have always known what the crossover is, and I was always under the impression that regardless of what the "after" display shows, they're actually setting up the EQ filters to get the crossover shape right.

Then how would you explain the weirdness in the MultEQ X debut video where the SU guy massively jacks up the bass in the target curve on one (or both?) of the main channels, without regard to the subwoofer?

When the App came out I asked everyone I could how one could set a tilt curve and have the mains splice with the subs at the correct level, given that managed is being displayed and controlled in a whole different graph than the bass-managed channels Nobody ever did give me a straight answer.

 

[joentell]

Then how would you explain the weirdness in the MultEQ X debut video where the SU guy massively jacks up the bass in the target curve on one (or both?) of the main channels, without regard to the subwoofer?

When the App came out I asked everyone I could how one could set a tilt curve and have the mains splice with the subs at the correct level, given that managed is being displayed and controlled in a whole different graph than the bass-managed channels Nobody ever did give me a straight answer.

I've been in that room when I visited and those "main" speakers have subwoofers connected to them. The "jacked up" bass is based on the natural response within the room. A lot of people use something similar to a Harman target which has a 9dB-10dB bass rise.

One thing to know about how Audyssey works is it attempts to keep levels the same despite the filters used. It calculates the affects of boosts and cuts and keeps the relative level the same. If you really want to be sure there's a blend, that would require a measurement after the filters are set and make sure the speakers align at the crossover points. Another way is to calibrate the mains and the subs to flat, make sure the levels are the same, and add the tilt globally to all speakers.

 

[jhaider]

I've been in that room when I visited and those "main" speakers have subwoofers connected to them. The "jacked up" bass is based on the natural response within the room.

While that may be true, it's out of the scope of my point - he was adjusting the main channel well below the presumptive bass management. So basically either that twiddling is either going to be EQ'ed out to fit the highpass (i.e. pointless) or it's going to fight with the AVR bass management rolloff and affect the in-room bass response who-knows-how (i.e. terrible).

This would not be a problem if bass management were properly integrated into the room correction. Then one could draw a target curve for the whole channel.

Alternately, is it set up as "double bass?" If so, that's even worse for the combined response! Audyssey will EQ the main to whatever target curve and separately EQ the subwoofer(s) to whatever subwoofer target curve is chosen for the subs, and likely do a great job with both independent parts. But then the mains and subs will interact, and the end result will be nothing like whatever target curve was chosen.

A lot of people use something similar to a Harman target which has a 9dB-10dB bass rise.

The current Harman target is actually more like an ~8dB total tilt with a ~3dB rise to 20Hz (re 1kHz), but yes there are older ones with more of a "ski jump" profile that may concentrate more rise in the bass.

However, here my point is that because you mess with integrated parts separately you're apt to introduce interactions at cross purposes with whatever you want to do. So what you draw isn't likely to be what you get through the mains/subs crossover region.

If you really want to be sure there's a blend, that would require a measurement after the filters are set and make sure the speakers align at the crossover points.

I'm well aware of that because I spent a long and tedious afternoon figuring it out...it doesn't always work the way you'd expect and in the end it takes a lot of trial and error to get something as simple as a constant tilt to stitch correctly between bass and bass-managed fronts. Maybe the new app improves on that, as there's a tilt target built in?

 

[Sal1950]

Nobody ever did give me a straight answer.

Humm,
Say Jay, is that your actual mug shot in your avatar?
What crime did you commit?

 

[jhaider]

I hope that's a joke, Sal, because if you don't recognize that American hero...that's just sad.

 

[Sal1950]

I hope that's a joke, Sal, because if you don't recognize that American hero...that's just sad.

I haven't a clue who that is?
I know it's not O. J.

 

[Newman]

Using PEQ doesn’t seem to delete the automated target curve, as was my previous impression. (Or does it?)

Please let me know when there is more certainty on this point. I think it’s important.

Cheers

 

[Colonel7]

I haven't a clue who that is?
I know it's not O. J.

John Lewis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Soundmixer]

Sneak Peak:

Based on this video (and I sat through it all), I decided to purchase a license for my X8500HA. I would purchase another license for my other Denon receiver, but it is going to be replaced soon, and their policy of tying a license to a specific receiver stops me in my tracks on this one.

While I understand Audyssey's need to recoup their R&D investment, the major complaint I see on the social networks on this is not the price overall, but having to pay for a new license every time they upgrade their Denon or Marantz AVR.

Audyssey's Rep does say they are open to comments, so perhaps if enough people complain about this, they will change their policy. It is clear they were listening to comment about the app, hence why they released this software.

I do think this upgrade does put Audyssey on the same flooring as Dirac. Trinnov....no way.

 

[Datec]

Based on this video (and I sat through it all), I decided to purchase a license for my X8500HA. I would purchase another license for my other Denon receiver, but it is going to be replaced soon, and their policy of tying a license to a specific receiver stops me in my tracks on this one.

While I understand Audyssey's need to recoup their R&D investment, the major complaint I see on the social networks on this is not the price overall, but having to pay for a new license every time they upgrade their Denon or Marantz AVR.

Audyssey's Rep does say they are open to comments, so perhaps if enough people complain about this, they will change their policy. It is clear they were listening to comment about the app, hence why they released this software.

I do think this upgrade does put Audyssey on the same flooring as Dirac. Trinnov....no way.

It doesn't hurt to try it. Yea I know it's $200, really though that shouldn't break anyone in this hobby who tweaks their system or likes to tweak and fiddle with it. Shit.. one of my interconnects cost that much and I got 7 just to tweak things and see what changes. Hell my last tweak was a $10k Bryston 6b sst to run my front 3, guess what? The $3200 Sherbourn 7200a that they were on sounds 95% the same, the difference I got was just a slight upper freq increase with the Bryston. That advice came from a trusted installer I know that said it would spank the Sherbourn turns out to be not true, don't know till you try.

That's why I bought it the 1st day I want to tweak and improve the sound. Now if someone could guide me and others with this software instead of bitching that would be awesome, cause I know there has to be some smart experienced people on here that could help. So if you all don't mind could you assist the ones that need it?

 

[Soundmixer]

It doesn't hurt to try it. Yea I know it's $200, really though that shouldn't break anyone in this hobby who tweaks their system or likes to tweak and fiddle with it.

I love to tweak, and I agree $200 dollars isn't a deal-breaker IF I have a new AVR. If I have an AVR that will be replaced next year, then spending $200 dollars makes no sense, I will get the license when I upgrade.

Folks have a right to bitch. Sound United AND Audyssey set a precedent with the APP, and this is a complete turnabout.

 

[Datec]

I love to tweak, and I agree $200 dollars isn't a deal-breaker IF I have a new AVR. If I have an AVR that will be replaced next year, then spending $200 dollars makes no sense, I will get the license when I upgrade.

Folks have a right to bitch. Sound United AND Audyssey set a precedent with the APP, and this is a complete turnabout.

That wasn't directed towards you, just in general. It just was released and updates Im sure will be coming out. The premature complaining is nerve racking and I know there are some very good guys that know what and how to use all the features in these systems. There just needs to be a little more understanding this kinda bashing will turn people away from even trying it.

If I knew I was getting a new processor, like you I wouldn't have bought it either. So after I fiddle with it and something still dosent sound the way I want, it might be the next to go. Currently I'm looking at my speakers as a focus that might be on the chopping block in my system but I won't know till I play with it.

 

[Trell]

It doesn't hurt to try it. Yea I know it's $200, really though that shouldn't break anyone in this hobby who tweaks their system or likes to tweak and fiddle with it. Shit.. one of my interconnects cost that much and I got 7 just to tweak things and see what changes. Hell my last tweak was a $10k Bryston 6b sst to run my front 3, guess what? The $3200 Sherbourn 7200a that they were on sounds 95% the same, the difference I got was just a slight upper freq increase with the Bryston. That advice came from a trusted installer I know that said it would spank the Sherbourn turns out to be not true, don't know till you try.

That's why I bought it the 1st day I want to tweak and improve the sound. Now if someone could guide me and others with this software instead of bitching that would be awesome, cause I know there has to be some smart experienced people on here that could help. So if you all don't mind could you assist the ones that need it?

 

[Laniciffo]

Hi All,
I'm new to this forum and lack all the expertise you all show here, but I am anyway interested in this new application.
Its price is a problem for my limited budget though and I would like to be able to get a little money back from this investment when I eventually sell my avr to someone else.
So I have one question for those who already tried the app:
Is the one user+one receiver lock based on a heos account, a Microsoft account (windows store) or just an e-mail address?
In the latter case one could create a new e-mail address dedicated to one Av receiver and the app just before doing the sw purchase.
Then, when the original owner of the app eventually decides that his beloved avr and he have to part ways, he could just hand over control of that address to the new owner of the avr.

As with so many applications based on accounts, I suspect there is a password recovery procedure that is e-mail based.
I suspect that could be a trick to work around the one-user lock.

 

[Chromatischism]

Hi All,
I'm new to this forum and lack all the expertise you all show here, but I am anyway interested in this new application.
Its price is a problem for my limited budget though and I would like to be able to get a little money back from this investment when I eventually sell my avr to someone else.
So I have one question for those who already tried the app:
Is the one user+one receiver lock based on a heos account, a Microsoft account (windows store) or just an e-mail address?
In the latter case one could create a new e-mail address dedicated to one Av receiver and the app just before doing the sw purchase.
Then, when the original owner of the app eventually decides that his beloved avr and he have to part ways, he could just hand over control of that address to the new owner of the avr.

As with so many applications based on accounts, I suspect there is a password recovery procedure that is e-mail based.
I suspect that could be a trick to work around the one-user lock.

It is email, and that is clever...it could work.