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Audyssey without the app?

Brofeld

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Hello,

I'm running a 2.1 system with an old Denon amp now, but neither the amp nor the subwoofer has the ability to high-pass the main speakers. Therefore, I'm considering to buy a second-hand AV-Receiver, most likely a Denon or Marantz. This would also give me Audyssey room correction, which I'm also very interested in. From what I've learned on this forum so far, it would make sense to buy an AVR with the top version of Audyssey (XT32), which is also new enough to be compatible with the Denon Audyssey app to be able to edit the target curve.

I am on a tight budget however, and all of the newer models which support the app are usually too expensive even second hand. Older models, even with Audyssey XT32, can be had much cheaper, but I often read that the bass is too weak with Audyssey's standard target curve.

Thus, my questions are:

If I would compensate for the weak bass by turning up the volume pot on the subwoofer, would I get a decent sound overall, or is that method too crude?

And which of the older Denon/Marantz AVRs with Audyssey XT32 would(n't) you consider to be worth buying today? (Note: my projector is only Full-HD, so I wouldn't necessarily need 4k support).


Thank you!
 
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-Matt-

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Of course you could simply boost the sub level after calibration, (you could also experiment with adjusting the crossover frequency). You will be able to get some bass enhancement but, as I think you suspect, it is going to be pretty coarse and therefore may be difficult to achieve a house curve you are happy with.

If it were me I think I'd try to get one of the older models that does support the app. Here is the compatibility list from the android play store...


Compatible models: (Product availability varies depending on regions.)
Denon AV Receiver: AVR-X6300H, AVR-X4300H, AVR-X3300W, AVR-X2300W, AVR-X1300W, AVR-X1400H, AVR-X2400H, AVR-X3400H, AVR-X4400H, AVR-X6400H, AVC-X8500H, AVR-X1500H, AVR-X2500H, AVR-X3500H, AVR-X4500H, AVC-X6500H, AVR-X1600H, AVR-X1600H DAB, AVR-X2600H, AVR-X2600H DAB, AVR-X3600H, AVR-S750H, AVR-S950H, AVC-A110, AVC-X6700H, AVC-X4700H, AVC-X3700H, AVR-X2700H, AVR-X2700H DAB, AVR-S960H, AVC-X8500HA, AVR-X1700H, AVR-X1700H DAB, AVR-S760H, AVC-A1H, AVC-X4800H, AVC-X3800H, AVR-X2800H, AVR-X2800H DAB, AVR-S970H
Marantz AV Receiver: AV7703, SR7011, SR6011, SR5011, NR1607, NR1608, SR5012, SR6012, SR7012, SR8012, AV7704, AV8805, NR1609, SR5013, SR6013, SR7013, AV7705, NR1710, SR5014, SR6014, SR8015, SR7015, SR6015, SR5015, SR5015 DAB, NR1711, AV7706, AV8805A, AV 10, CINEMA 40, CINEMA 50, CINEMA 60, CINEMA 60 DAB, CINEMA 70s

I think the 3000 and higher series are quite a step above the 1000 and 2000 series. So perhaps look for something like an AVR-X3300W or similar. (These seem to sell for £300-£400 on ebay UK is that still over budget). Go for a newer if you can afford the extra.

This item isn't mine - just giving an example of a recent completed listing: ebay AVR-X3300
 

-Matt-

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In case you don't know... for Denon AVR-X or AVC-X ranges the thousands number basically correlates to amplifier power rating and features, whilst the hundreds number indicates the model year.
 

AdamG

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turning up the volume pot on the subwoofer, would I get a decent sound overall, or is that method too crude?
First off Welcome Aboard @Brofeld !!!

It will work just fine. Worked for me for years. Just bump up the Sub gains post Calibration. While not as tweakable as the Audyssey App, it work’s good enough.

As far as which model, it depends on what functionality you are looking for and if you want pre-outs to run separate amps. Will need more information on your setup and what you future expansion plans are, if any? Making a guess here that you have no external amp and only intended to run a 2.1 channel setup. If correct get the least expensive AVR that has the Audyssey Version you want. Good luck
 

bodhi

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I have noticed that people complaining about too little bass after Audyssey often don't use Dynamic EQ. With DEQ at -10dB from reference I find there is more than enough bass for music. I have second preset for movies with +4dB low shelf from 100Hz and it's kind of fun but clearly sounds boosted. I have the MultEQ-X pc app and have played around with it a lot, but in the end I haven't been able to create anything better than what XT32 does by default.

Without DEQ you are using subwoofer gain to fight Fletcher–Munson curve at some specific volume setting. This is kind of bad if you use wildly different volume levels: nigh time music listening when the kiddies are asleep vs boys movie night.
 
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Brofeld

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Thank you all for your answers and the warm welcome. I will have to contemplate whether or not I need the app.

Meanwhile, I continue to watch the second hand market. Like @-Matt- said, the (likely) cheapest option that has both XT32 and app support will be the Denon AVR-X3300W, or perhaps the Marantz SR6011. I already saw two X3300W in my region (I'm in Germany), for €350 and €425 respectively, but both were gone very quickly. Currently, the cheapest option locally would be a SR6014 for €600, but that's a bit too much for me, as I would like to keep it below €400. Also, the 6014 didn't do well in Amir's test.

Which also raises the question whether Marantz would be a good choice at all? In Amir's tests, they almost always seem to fare worse than their Denon counterparts. I wonder if this is also true for the earlier models?

@AdamG247 : Regarding your questions, my current setup is 2.1; the main speakers are Duevel Planets, which are rated at 4 Ohm, 85 dB sensitivity and 50 Watt RMS. My guess is that I won't need external amplification for those; sensitivity might not be that great, but the woofers are tiny (15 cm) and I don't really listen at great volumes. For the future, since I still have a pair of unused bookshelf speakers, I might give 4.1 surround a try if I find a good way to integrate the rear speakers in our living room. But I don't think I will ever move to a setup that involves more speakers than 5.x.

So I would say that pre-outs are nice to have, but not really necessary for me.

@bodhi : Yes, I absolutely intend to use Dynamic EQ and likely Dynamic Volume as well, because I'm a bit tired of continuously having to adjust the volume during movies (with low mumbly dialogues followed by very loud music). Are these options always included with Audyssey, or are they missing from some of the earlier models?
 
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Brofeld

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Small update, just in case anyone is interested: I found a good deal on an AVR-X4500H and bought it. It was quite a bit above my budget, but well... that was just some arbitrary number anyway, and I couldn't resist the offer. I haven't begun setting it up yet because I didn't have time to do so and didn't want to rush it - the whole Audyssey setup seems rather complex for a first-timer like me, and I want to make sure to take my time with it.
 

-Matt-

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Congratulations, that will give you absolutely loads of power for a 2.1 system and scope for future expansion and tweaking. I hope it works out well and brings you a great deal of enjoyment.
 
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