Audyssey Room EQ Review

[KEW]

The big problem with all the older "Loudness" buttons is that the Fletcher-Munson curve is based on knowing the volume level. The Marantz DEQ has a chance of being right in that it "know's" how loud the music is at X volume setting from the measured Audyssey 0 level

I lucked out with my Sansui AU-717 and AR 3a's ... the Sansui had a mute toggle that decreased the SPL by -20dB, it had enough power that the detents for the volume knob did not give me the fine control I wanted over the Volume, so I ran it with the mute always on. Without the mute, the loudness switch was over-blown, but with the mute, it worked very nicely. That surprises me as I would not think the amount of loudness applied would correlate to the mechanical position of the knob as opposed to the net attenuation being applied (which would include the mute). Maybe one of you EE types could verify that I wasn't hallucinating (which was definitely fair game in those days)!

 

[KEW]

Exactly, I guess because most upmost people can not, don't want or don't understand to use it correctly. As we know loudness was long time frowned upon and guess still is from audiophi̵l̵e̵s̵ools.

But Yamaha could have fixed that with no volume, but a loudness control on the RC!
Given the choice between using "loudness" on the RC or having to get up to change the volume, even the most dedicated idiots would eventually yield to competence!

 

[Sal1950]

I don't know who listens to these things but the guy that thinks the level change in the rear channels is a good thing is nuts. I like the idea of it being tied to the F-M curves but this rear channel business is way out of wack and total screws up the rear balance when engaged.

 

[flaviowolff]

I don't know who listens to these things but the guy that thinks the level change in the rear channels is a good thing is nuts. I like the idea of it being tied to the F-M curves but this rear channel business is way out of wack and total screws up the rear balance when engaged.

It's the same guy who thinks the 2khz dip is good for every speaker he tested, even when the crossovers were much lower or higher: Chris Kyriakakis from Audyssey.

"Our findings showed that the dip in the 2 kHz range is desirable regardless of the exact xover frequency of your speaker. With the Pro version of the software one can move the midrange dip to different frequencies, but this is not possible with the standard consumer version."

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347863-Midrange-Compensation

 

[Sal1950]

It's the same guy who thinks the 2khz dip is good for every speaker he tested, even when the crossovers were much lower or higher: Chris Kyriakakis from Audyssey.

At least it's defeatable with Editor, I can't shut off the rear channel level manipulation of DEQ

 

[flaviowolff]

At least it's defeatable with Editor

For those with recent AVRs, yes.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

At least it's defeatable with Editor, I can't shut off the rear channel level manipulation of DEQ

Easy. Just turn off DEQ.

 

[Sal1950]

Easy. Just turn off DEQ.

Your so mean. LOL

 

[Chromatischism]

Next, I wanted to fix another ill which is the target response. Audyssey uses a flat target curve for low frequencies which is a mistake. Equalization usually brings down the peaks created by the room modes. This fixes the problem but then overall bass feels too low compared to no EQ, resulting in many people not liking automatic EQ. The right "target curve" is one that has emphasis for bass and some dipping for highs. There is quick target curve with the high frequency attenuation but none with bass boost which is major miss. I had to create this manually which was a major pain to do by hand on a touch screen. Still, I managed to get there with a quick and dirty one:

View attachment 59655

Anyway, I told it to upload the data to the AVR which took a bit. Once there, the results were superb! The sound out of my system was now reference quality, pinning me down to my seat listening to track after track from my "audiophile" playlist. Room modes were gone and the deep, floor shaking bass that I expect from my Salon 2 speakers were back with the new target curve. Detail was to die for. Bass was clean. On and on.

Conclusions
I came into this review expecting Audyssey to not perform. That was my experience and that of formal blind testing of it years back. The out of box results of this "XT32" version was better than I remembered. Still, using the App is mandatory to properly incorporate a target curve with more bass and removal of "BBC dip." Once there, I had no issues with its performance and I think it comes very close to advanced solutions like Dirac and Anthem ARC.

Audyssey works differently than other room EQ systems. Most of them will flatten the bass region, then apply a "house curve" as you describe here. Audyssey doesn't set a static house curve in the bass region, instead achieving flatness then relying on Dynamic EQ to adjust the low and high frequency boost based on the user's volume level. So the "house curve" on an Audyssey system is adjusted dynamically based on equal loudness research. I have found it to be nearly perfect out of the box in both sub and sub-less systems, however as KKoen mentioned it sometimes needs a -5 Reference Level Offset with some music. It will end up with a slight high-frequency boost and a rise in the bass region at lower listening levels, and flatten out as you reach 0 MV – so it will produce a balanced sound at any level. That is why many evaluations of these systems fail to show it on an equal footing. They think by turning these options off they are making a "fair" comparison.

Other systems using static curves will either have vanishing bass at low levels, or overpowering bass at high levels. There is no way to achieve spectral balance at all levels without a self-adjusting curve. This feature in my opinion and in my experience is something that makes it superior to other solutions like Dirac and Anthem ARC.

 

[_Bass]

View attachment 59655

Can someone please help me -- how can I make the curve like that in the app? Every time I try to place the dots, they do not move that easy and in the way I want them to. It seems impossible to get the near 20 Hz lift like that. Is there a trick to it? Maybe use more dots, and then eventually remove some of them?

 

[Matt S]

Audyssey works differently than other room EQ systems. Most of them will flatten the bass region, then apply a "house curve" as you describe here. Audyssey doesn't set a static house curve in the bass region, instead achieving flatness then relying on Dynamic EQ to adjust the low and high frequency boost based on the user's volume level. So the "house curve" on an Audyssey system is adjusted dynamically based on equal loudness research. I have found it to be nearly perfect out of the box in both sub and sub-less systems, however as KKoen mentioned it sometimes needs a -5 Reference Level Offset with some music. It will end up with a slight high-frequency boost and a rise in the bass region at lower listening levels, and flatten out as you reach 0 MV – so it will produce a balanced sound at any level. That is why many evaluations of these systems fail to show it on an equal footing. They think by turning these options off they are making a "fair" comparison.

Other systems using static curves will either have vanishing bass at low levels, or overpowering bass at high levels. There is no way to achieve spectral balance at all levels without a self-adjusting curve. This feature in my opinion and in my experience is something that makes it superior to other solutions like Dirac and Anthem ARC.

This explains something that I had misunderstood. Thanks so much for this information.

 

[Matt S]

Can someone please help me -- how can I make the curve like that in the app? Every time I try to place the dots, they do not move that easy and in the way I want them to. It seems impossible to get the near 20 Hz lift like that. Is there a trick to it? Maybe use more dots, and then eventually remove some of them?

Running an Android emulator on your PC might help you a little, but it's still quite fiddly I think. You could also look into Ratbudyssey which allows greater levels of control.

It all requires some time but this is, after all, our hobby eh?

<assume most of us have partners whom look and shake their heads from time to time?>

 

[rxp]

Chromatischism, I absoultely see the value in DynEQ with 2 channel but because of the way it messes with levels it really throws off a multi channel setup.

One of the side benefits I noticed for all the Dolby Atmos Music on Tidal that they're re-mastering - reference volume with correct offset meta-data. With that - a loudness algorithm can work very well for music - because just like movies it has a reference volume.

 

[Chromatischism]

I did not know they were doing that. That sounds promising.

I just turn down the surround channels by 2-3 and it seems to counter the effect of DEQ boosting the surrounds. I understand that does not work for some.

 

[daftcombo]

I have noted in my speaker reviews how I filter out a room mode at 102 Hz and you can see the reason clearly here. The black curve is without EQ and we see a very high amplitude peak there. It is about 8 to 10 dB higher than average level! Audyssey EQ has correctly identified that peak and pulled it down to the custom target curve I had created (red graph).

Hi Amir,

In your speaker reviews you EQ the 102 Hz room mode out by a few dB only, definitely not 8 or 10 dB. Why so?

 

[Pepperjack]

I just started playing with this. Should I be aiming to create the theoretical sloping downward in room curve always recommended in the speaker reviews, or a more flat curve with a bit of bass boost as Amir did in the first sample, or some other method of approach? This is the kh120 8.5 feet apart 8.5ft from seating position.l in my room.

 

[abhijitnath]

Hi all, first post!

I ran Audyssey on the app and these are my results. It was interesting but not 'night and day' in the way its being described here. I also felt like there was a 'veil' almost, and also that the Pure Direct vs corrected after curve weren't volume matched, so my ears could be playing tricks on me. Am I doing something wrong? I followed the instructions in the FAQ post and AVS, Ratbuddy etc.

I'm running Spatial Audio M3s through a Denon AVR X4400H

I can't even tell if the "before" looks good or not I probably need a sub. Yes?

 

[rxp]

The idea of hooking up a mouse to your phone to set the curve was genius!

I don't know if it's getting better but what I now measure in REW is remarkably close to the after graph in the app. I know it updates its processing on App updates - perhaps it's just gotten better?

 

[Matt S]

Hi all, first post!

I ran Audyssey on the app and these are my results. It was interesting but not 'night and day' in the way its being described here. I also felt like there was a 'veil' almost, and also that the Pure Direct vs corrected after curve weren't volume matched, so my ears could be playing tricks on me. Am I doing something wrong? I followed the instructions in the FAQ post and AVS, Ratbuddy etc.

I'm running Spatial Audio M3s through a Denon AVR X4400H

I can't even tell if the "before" looks good or not I probably need a sub. Yes?

I guess it depends on all sorts of things. Why not use something like REW to measure pure direct vs Audyssey? That'll confirm the difference and also just how good your ears are.

 

[abhijitnath]

Hmm- that makes sense, thank you! Unfortunately, I dont have REW (will have to wait for lockdown to end in India before getting a UMIK).

In the interim, could someone more knowledgeable than me comment on the 'before' frequency response?