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AudioScienceReview discussion on AS.

Absolute

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Wow, that first page in that thread was a solid 3 minutes I'll never get back. Some people are beyond hope. Must be Americans :D


Edit; I'm sorry, Audiophiles. I meant Audiophiles.
 
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Wes

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What's hilarious is that Chris Con. disagrees with someone and tells them "Please stick to the facts. Objective data rather than anecdotes."

An amazing display of hypocrisy.
 
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jabberwalkie

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Wow, that first page in that thread was a solid 3 minutes I'll never get back. Some people are beyond hope. Must be Americans :D


Edit; I'm sorry, Audiophiles. I meant Audiophiles.
AFAIK there are people from all around the world there. An interesting and possibly controversial discussion is taking place there anyway, IMO that is.
 

Absolute

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AFAIK there are people from all around the world there. An interesting and possibly controversial discussion is taking place there anyway, IMO that is.
Yes, it was a joke. I didn't read further than a couple of pages because my life is too short to deal with stuff that stupid.
 

Sancus

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AFAIK there are people from all around the world there. An interesting and possibly controversial discussion is taking place there anyway, IMO that is.

I don't see anything interesting about that discussion. Just seems to be the same old subjectivist vs objectivist debate which we've had many times on this forum as well. With a bonus of people calling into question Amir's credibility, which is childish.
 

rdenney

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They are simply cherry-picking stuff from one forum to complain about it in another forum, which I think is bad form.

Such as: the SINAD chart for DACs being used as a recommendation tool, which is an oft-repeated complaint about ASR in that thread. And which does not happen here that I've seen. Most people asking for a recommendation receive something like "get anything on the left half of the chart that has the features and controls that you need."

But those arguments are being challenged well enough. People can make up their own minds. Nothing to see here--move along.

Rick "thinking a lot of threads like the one linked are self-incriminating, and hoping this thread doesn't become another one" Denney
 
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jabberwalkie

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I don't see anything interesting about that discussion. Just seems to be the same old subjectivist vs objectivist debate which we've had many times on this forum as well. With a bonus of people calling into question Amir's credibility, which is childish.
I'm far from being an expert but I think it's difficult to disagree in 100% with eg this guy's (who claims he used to be an audio dealer) logic and arguments, I even wonder what would @amirm say:
AS post
 

dc655321

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but I think it's difficult to disagree in 100% with eg this guy's (who claims he used to be an audio dealer) logic and arguments

It's not difficult at all to disagree - that person doesn't have a clue about the "points" system they're critiquing, where that system comes from, or what the numbers represent.

The fact that they are or were an audio dealer gives even less credibility to any opinion shared...
 

Sancus

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I'm far from being an expert but I think it's difficult to disagree in 100% with eg this guy's (who claims he used to be an audio dealer) logic and arguments, I even wonder what would @amirm say:
AS post

Being an audio dealer would, if anything, reduce credibility, not improve it. But of course, this guy instantly destroys his credibility in advance for us by saying cables matter:

(it's a pretty serious gear, I'm quite surprised the guy can't hear eg differences between cables on this system..)

The score is a topic that has been covered ad nauseum. There are hundreds of pages of discussion about the score. The score and the measurements are two different things. There are measurements that aren't even included in the score at all(like distortion). Disagreements with the score don't prove anything about the measurements, as the score is no more than a (mathematical, study-based) INTERPRETATION of the measurements.

The score offers a general guide to which should be preferred due to bass extension, frequency response and directivity, that's it. It only shows ~95% accuracy within a +/- 1.6 window, so for example the Kef LS50 is not guaranteed to be preferred over the KRK, it's only about a 66% chance on average.

The score is still more valid than a completely arbitrary subjective rating, and it's useful to sort hundreds of loudspeaker reviews, but you really shouldn't take point of differences of less than 1 point as being all that meaningful.

Again, this is all old stuff and it's only new to you because you're new here! Which, welcome! But you'll need to do your own research and read the content to understand why these criticisms are boring and already debunked.

I probably won't bother responding to anything else from that thread as none of it is novel enough to be worth it.

I suggest starting with learning how to read the speaker reviews:
 
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jabberwalkie

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It's not difficult at all to disagree - that person doesn't have a clue about the "points" system
Shouldn't the 'points' system refer to the quality, including sound quality of a given gear? If there is no 'correlation' between the two, what's the sense of the points system?
 
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jabberwalkie

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Being an audio dealer would, if anything, reduce credibility, not improve it. But of course, this guy instantly destroys his credibility in advance for us by saying cables matter:
Most if not all audio magazines review cables, do you suggest it's a conspiracy?
 

Sancus

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Shouldn't the 'points' system refer to the quality, including sound quality of a given gear? If there is no 'correlation' between the two, what's the sense of the points system?

Actually, somebody did the math and proved that it does correlate with even Amir's single, sighted listening.

It just doesn't correlate perfectly, which well, I'd ask what single number score does? I can guarantee if you double blind tested Stereophile or What Hi Fi(lol)'s scoring systems the correlation would be significantly worse than the actual study-based rating system :p

Most if not all audio magazines review cables, do you suggest it's a conspiracy?

Most if not all audio magazines are nothing more than advertisement outlets for manufacturers. This is very well known and understood.
 

q3cpma

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Shouldn't the 'points' system refer to the quality, including sound quality of a given gear? If there is no 'correlation' between the two, what's the sense of the points system?
There is no "no correlation". Seriously, lurk more and try to use your eyes and head in order to understand; though this score really mislead people who don't take the time to understand it, and is of no interest to those who do. Same with SINAD, it's a metric as useful as PSNR (non -HVS) for images, completely ignoring psychoacoustic phenomenons like frequency masking (being unweighted).
 

dc655321

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Shouldn't the 'points' system refer to the quality, including sound quality of a given gear? If there is no 'correlation' between the two, what's the sense of the points system?

Correlation is not a binary function - it is a spectrum.

It would be helpful for your understanding to have a look at what goes into the scoring algorithm. It's not perfect, but it's leagues better than subjective drivel.
 
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jabberwalkie

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for example the Kef LS50 is not guaranteed to be preferred over the KRK, it's only about a 66% chance on average
I don't get it. I have come here with hope of getting an objective, scientific audio advice. You guys, as I understand it, are against subjective listening tests cause they are unreliable and you base your knowledge on 'audio science' which suggests that by using different measurements it is possible to objectively, scientifically, one could say, evaluate audio equipment. If so - why can't I simply get an information; Kef LS50 is a better speaker than KRK Rockit 5 but instead I just get the information that there is only a '66% chance on average' that it's better? That's all Amirt's $28 000 measuring equipment can say? How am I supposed to choose good audio equipment then?
 
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jabberwalkie

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It would be helpful for your understanding to have a look at what goes into the scoring algorithm. It's not perfect, but it's leagues better than subjective drivel.
So you claim that less than 66% of people on average would prefer LS50 ofer KRK, right?
 

Katji

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wrt the ASR measurement data, you need to understand "It is what it is."
 

Katji

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It is worse than "bad form," it is ridiculous.


Can we just stop giving publicity to all these crap reviewers and forums that are full of streams of nonsense.

It is like putting this forum on a par with them, like equivalent.
 
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