Audiopraise VanityPro Review (HDMI Audio Extractor)

[Kal Rubinson]

I also have two Okto8's. How have you found the AES stability to be, running to the second Okto? Do you regard the double Okto as a viable strategy or just a science experiment?

I didn't run that config, in my case with one Okto DAC8Pro and one exaSound s88, long enough to comment on its stability. It worked at first try, though.

Also, I don't understand what the connections would be if you have PC/JRiver in the middle for DSP. Can you elaborate?

What I did was connect them both (as they are now) with separate USB cables to the host PC. Each will show up (or set up) as possible outputs and, in my case, were distinguishable by name. (I do not know how 2 Oktos will appear but you can try to name them differently.) I chose the exaSound as my output device and selected the Okto for ASIO Line-In. This should work for 2 Oktos if you and Jriver can distinguish them.

If you are employing a PC/JRiver in the middle then how does one make that same PC the JRiver front end for music selection?

See above.

 

[jjk]

I didn't run that config, in my case with one Okto DAC8Pro and one exaSound s88, long enough to comment on its stability. It worked at first try, though.


What I did was connect them both (as they are now) with separate USB cables to the host PC. Each will show up (or set up) as possible outputs and, in my case, were distinguishable by name. (I do not know how 2 Oktos will appear but you can try to name them differently.) I chose the exaSound as my output device and selected the Okto for ASIO Line-In. This should work for 2 Oktos if you and Jriver can distinguish them.

See above.

Thanks Kal.
So was Okto #1 in AES mode and Okto #2 in USB mode?
Any hints on how to name the devices differently?
And, I didn't think that the Thesycon driver could support two devices. Does the Exa have its own driver? That may be the key sticking point.
Thank you again.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

So was Okto #1 in AES mode and Okto #2 in USB mode?

Okto in AES mode and exaSound in USB (or LAN) mode.

Any hints on how to name the devices differently?

Nope. You'd have to try it and experiment.

And, I didn't think that the Thesycon driver could support two devices. Does the Exa have its own driver? That may be the key sticking point.

Perhaps. I have no experience with using two Oktos.

 

[jjk]

Okto in AES mode and exaSound in USB (or LAN) mode.

Nope. You'd have to try it and experiment.

Perhaps. I have no experience with using two Oktos.

All understood. I will go back in to the basement for a while!

 

[Dacapalooza]

Has anyone considered a similar Multi-Channel Music-based chain utilizing a Roon streamer HDMI out (could be a very simple/cheap NUC-based streamer) to the VanityPro to the miniDSP DDRC-88D then to the Okto DAC8 Pro for a 7.1 music-based multi-channel setup? I realize the fidelity limitations of this chain would be based on the miniDSP DDRC-88D's performance, which hasn't been tested/measured. Amir has reviewed the miniDSP DDRC-88A, which got a very marginal pass/recommendation. But the miniDSP DDRC-88D is a different animal that does it all in the digital domain. This chain's performance would depend on the jitter or any noise the miniDSP unit might add. You would get Dirac Live room correction in a separate (non-PC based) box, to an otherwise very high-fidelity chain (only limited by the performance of the DDRC-88D). I'm a multi-channel music fan that has always been looking for an affordable solution to room correction that doesn't involve a PC.

I know many posters here seem to be concerned with the VanityPro's potential integration with their audio-video Dolby Surround or Dolby Atmos based setups. But, I'm not sure that's what it is being offered for (I guess not, since it doesn't support any of those codecs). It seems to me that that Audiopraise could be testing this out with a potential "audiophile" multi-channel music-based audience? HDMI has in the past been considered a very poor medium to transmit high-quality/high-resolution audio, but are they attempting to make it somewhat of an alternative to the traditional USB-based audio setups? Maybe multi-channel music, besides otherwise being almost dead, may have a future with Dolby Atmos? I don't know - but, if so, then I get these objections to this unit not supporting the Dolby Atmos codec . . . just sayin' . . .

The chain I was proposing above, although admittedly multi-component, is still a whole lot cheaper than the very excellent, but also very expensive exaSound S88 MkII; now $7,600.00 -- course, that's what I really want, and it takes a Roon Ethernet streaming input! (but, sadly no real room correction).

- John

 

[Dacapalooza]

I have been using Audiopraise HDMI AES extractors for almost 7 years now.
I have 3 of them. A Vanity 103 AES & 2 x 203's - One of 203 is for backup).

My current System:
(Firestick -> ) Oppo 203 -> Vanity AES -> Trinnov Demon -> Okto8 -> AHB2's -> Revel F226Be's

There are only 2 dedicated digital MCH room correction devices, afaik. Trinnov Pro's & DDRC-88D.
I got one of the first Trinnov Demon's ever made!

Only Trinnov does 96khz. For that matter, only Trinnov does 44.1.

"the internal sample rate is 48 kHz regardless"

Not sure if 24 bits? I assume not because the very fact it is omitted from manual? So DDRC-88D is only 16bits as well.

This is the most stable my system has ever been. Never once an issue since. No HDMI issues. No rebooting’s. Not even a hiccup.

This system gives you 3 Preamps! 2 downmixers. 2 Crossovers. 2 DAC's. Only 1 Decoder though. (The Vanity 203 added volume capability using the Oppo's remote.)

I use Trinnov for Preamp duties, since EQing is doing volumey stuff anyway. Although using's oppo's 5.1 donwmixer (which is also does volumey stuff) because I am assuming there is Dolby compliance for downmixers in the decoders?

Trinnov a few years ago added a dedicated downmixing screen to GUI. Every day I wake up and GUI changes. So Trinnov support is great!

I was concerned about the Trinnov as it is even hotter than my then Krell Amps. But it does still work after 7 years so already got my $ worth. In fact, I was so concerned that I googled how to measure. I got a thermocoupler and it is 110F+ inside in idle! And I leave on the Trinnov 24/7. Since there is a PC inside I was advised to no shut off many times daily.

Not sure why people say Trinnov is complex or expensive? In my experience I found neither. Way easier than the Audyssey Pro. Just hook up mic & click calibrate!

I am debating getting this. A double backup? So in like 10 years I might need this when all 3 of my Oppo’s die? (My 103 was in very heavy operation for 6+ years and still going strong!)

I will probably get this in my next yearly upgrade. Just to support Audiopraise for their amazing work and for giving me/us the ability to use any DAC we want when watching movies. Music – there is no need for proper measured DAC’s as that hits your soul. Even if bad SINBAD and gremlins - good music just gives me goose bumps. Audiopraise understands audio! Only ones!

 

[Dacapalooza]

I was just thinking I can add the VanityPro to my chain & would not be considered a new "device" that I am stringing together in my audio chain. I have the Clones PSU so plenty of extra power inside the Oppo (no request to Spock for extra power required here .) The VanityPro can share the same power as the Oppo from 2 of the USB outputs.

 

[Dacapalooza]

The reviewer did not mention that the vanity is a reclocker as well. And it reclocks to the native bitrate. And it measures well. All the other reclockers measured here did not. Nor did the other reclockers do native bitrate.

Although, it is my understanding that it does not have to measure well. A decent DAC will correct jitter or other bad digital stuff. At least that was what they told me on the AHB2 thread. On the other hand, can not reconcile why the UDIO-8 got a bad review? Even if bad, the DAC would correct? Why did not the reviewer test the UDIO-8 with A DAC and demonstrate this. Lost opportunity if the AHB2-ers are correct.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

It does but converts it to PCM.

Unless you set it to DoP.

 

[jjk]

Has anyone considered a similar Multi-Channel Music-based chain utilizing a Roon streamer HDMI out (could be a very simple/cheap NUC-based streamer) to the VanityPro to the miniDSP DDRC-88D then to the Okto DAC8 Pro for a 7.1 music-based multi-channel setup? I realize the fidelity limitations of this chain would be based on the miniDSP DDRC-88D's performance, which hasn't been tested/measured. Amir has reviewed the miniDSP DDRC-88A, which got a very marginal pass/recommendation. But the miniDSP DDRC-88D is a different animal that does it all in the digital domain. This chain's performance would depend on the jitter or any noise the miniDSP unit might add. You would get Dirac Live room correction in a separate (non-PC based) box, to an otherwise very high-fidelity chain (only limited by the performance of the DDRC-88D). I'm a multi-channel music fan that has always been looking for an affordable solution to room correction that doesn't involve a PC.

I know many posters here seem to be concerned with the VanityPro's potential integration with their audio-video Dolby Surround or Dolby Atmos based setups. But, I'm not sure that's what it is being offered for (I guess not, since it doesn't support any of those codecs). It seems to me that that Audiopraise could be testing this out with a potential "audiophile" multi-channel music-based audience? HDMI has in the past been considered a very poor medium to transmit high-quality/high-resolution audio, but are they attempting to make it somewhat of an alternative to the traditional USB-based audio setups? Maybe multi-channel music, besides otherwise being almost dead, may have a future with Dolby Atmos? I don't know - but, if so, then I get these objections to this unit not supporting the Dolby Atmos codec . . . just sayin' . . .

The chain I was proposing above, although admittedly multi-component, is still a whole lot cheaper than the very excellent, but also very expensive exaSound S88 MkII; now $7,600.00 -- course, that's what I really want, and it takes a Roon Ethernet streaming input! (but, sadly no real room correction).

- John

da,
I am considering it.
For right now my chain is: Sources > HD Fury Vertex 2 > Vanity Pro > Okto 8 Dac Pro (AES/USB) for DSP/BM through JRiver.
Sources: Directv Genie, ATV4k, Oppo. Outputs: Dac8 Pro and Panasonic plasma (soon to be LG G2!)
I switch modes to USB on the Okto to listen to MCH.
So far it is stable. When switching from AES/USB mode to USB on the Okto, no issues. However, when you swtich back to AES/USB for Home Theater, I have to reset the Thesycon driver under Open Live in JRiver (frequency mismatch).
The Vertex 2 is new to me so I am getting the hang of that as well. Needed a bit of tech support to configure properly but now I think we're good.
If it becomes unstable, I will probably give the 88D a shot.
Play it loud!

 

[jjk]

Has anyone experimented with Vanity Pro in a Home Theater configuration?
I seem to be getting an "anomaly".
It appears to me the VP reverses channels 3 and 4. Normally 3 is the center and 4 is the sub. The VP sends 3 to the sub and 4 to the center.
For Home Theater duty I run everything through the Okto8 Pro, employing the AES/USB mode, then thrugh JRiver for DSP/BM.
I listen to MCH audio through the Okto as well but in USB mode. So that is the issue; JRiver uses a standard 3 center/4 sub config.
Switching between the two modes requires going to the DSP mix everytime to switch 3 and 4.
Has anyone else observed this behavior? Or am I missing something obvious; which is very possible.
Appreciate any hints or suggestions. I will need to return the device if I can't get a solution.
Thanks for the help!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I listen to MCH audio through the Okto as well but in USB mode. So that is the issue; JRiver uses a standard 3 center/4 sub config.
Switching between the two modes requires going to the DSP mix everytime to switch 3 and 4.

Set up two zones, identical except for the 3-4 switch.

 

[jjk]

True.
But that would still require an extra step which makes it problematic for domestic home theater operation.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

True.
But that would still require an extra step which makes it problematic for domestic home theater operation.

Have you tried doing the channel swap in the Okto?

 

[jjk]

No, I didn't but I thought about it!
I contacted Pavel at Audiopraise. He says there is no standard for channel alignment on AES. And that they are working on a software change this weekend.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

He says there is no standard for channel alignment on AES.

Not true.

And that they are working on a software change this weekend.

Good. Now how will the rest of us see this?

 

[j8352938]

I consider it dead-on-arrival due to it being limited to HDMI 2.0a.

A product like this needs to be fully HDMI 2.1 compliant in order to be as future proof as possible and in order to include support for eARC (Enhanced audio return channel), so that sources with DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS:X, Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Atmos can be extracted.

The next step-up after that would be to include the following:

• Ability in the device to control the conversion parameters to PCM
• Ability to do custom down-mixing (e.g. 7.1 to 2.0, but including the LFE channel)
• Ability to specify a desired output delay (e.g. if you are separately splitting the HDMI video signal prior to the HDMI signal coming into this device for audio splitting)

How does having eARC help you with DTS-HD. DTS:X etc? Are you thinking the TV is going to decode those bitstreams into 7.1 LPCM?

 

[j8352938]

But now comes the next catch, Apple 4K TV decodes only to 5.1 DD or 2ch stereo however it can send other higher lossless signals like Atmos in an encoded format which needs a software.

I have Apple 4K TV and can confirm that it successfully converts DD and DD+ into an output 7.1 LPCM. I'm using a Meridian UHD722 and 861v8, and for sure neither of those two can decode DD+, so finding a source that convert Netflix DD+ pseudo-Atmos to 7.1 has been a journey. Was using an Oppo Vanity before. Thing is, in the Oppo Vanity, it's the Oppo doing the decoding and the Vanity doing the "output it as digital".

 

[j8352938]

Just want to clarify - this thing doesn't decode bitstreams such as DD, DD+, TrueHD, DTS:X etc? So unless the source is outputting 7.1 LPCM, then there's no sound?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Just want to clarify - this thing doesn't decode bitstreams such as DD, DD+, TrueHD, DTS:X etc? So unless the source is outputting 7.1 LPCM, then there's no sound?

Of course. DSD or LPCM. No codecs.