• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Audiophonics DA-S250NC and DAW-S250NC : new integrated amps with DAC (streamer) and Ncore !

MCH

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
2,581
Likes
2,199
Haha i'm in exactly the same position. I will pair this with my Emit 30's and wonder if i am going to miss having a turntable option down the road. @DTTOM37 Beat me to it with the Pro-Ject box. Here is a thread on the topic if you hav'nt seen it: Integrating a turntable into a digital system. I have decided to be satisfied with just streaming for the moment, thinking i will be able to fint a way to intergrate a turntable digitally later with good enough quality (to my ears).
 

Sangro

Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2022
Messages
6
Likes
9
Quick reply, I remember having taken notice of a DAC from Korg that allows RIIA equalization. I saw that at a German forum and it was somehow complicated iirc. Search engine just told me its called Korg DS-DAC-10-R.
Cool little device!
 

Haslar

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Messages
25
Likes
16
This is an interesting topic that comes along with many affordable amplifiers.
Your turntable signal could be transmitted via RCA to BT transmitter (i.e Project Phono Box E BT 5)
If the analog signal source is in your opinion so good/valuable that the BT doesn't cut it, you may also not being satified with any integrated phono pre amps of other price sensitive AIO's, because mostly these are rather cheap add-ons.
Consequently, you may need to invest in a proper phono pre amp and even then your aren't far from a rabbit hole ...
I understand from my personal life long love towards turntables and my neglect of anything Bluetooth that people wouldn't like to go that route, however looking at options and pricing alltogether it seems to be intersting?

Actually, I do own that Pro-Ject Box E BT phono box. I used it to connect my turntable with my KEF LS50 Wireless Mk II.
It was not exactly the most fluid conectivity, sometimes it would not connect at all, but I don't know what's at fault (the KEFs or the Pro-ject).

I'm not sure I'm very excited about the idea of using a BT device to connect my Rega turntable to a digital amp that shall be placed a few inches under it...
 

Matias

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
5,031
Likes
10,804
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
DAW-S250NC Follow Up:

PS: I would send my to @amirm for testing if 2-way shipping and insurance is not all on me :)
@amirm and/or @Audiophonics can help you with the funding of shipping back and forth with their donor funds and marketing budget respectively.
 

Paszek

Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Messages
5
Likes
21
We made a firmware that keep the relay always ON after startup. So the outputs will not be grounded anymore when the DAC is Unlock.
Unit sold from today will be updated with this firmware.
If a customer is annoyed by the relay noise, we suggest him to contact us (open RMA ticket into website account) because the unit must be returned for update.
I appreciate @Audiophonics response and efforts to fix the issue. I sent my unit for update and now it's back home. Now amp works the way I would like it to work and it has my full recommendation. Thanks @Audiophonics thanks ASR!
 

sniegs

Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2022
Messages
53
Likes
20
Looks great, sounds great, remote control is good, all the inputs work (haven't tried the sub/pre-amp).
While looks are subjective (and I really don't see it here), can you describe the sound more (subjectively of course)?

What do you mean the remote works fine? -does it work in any direction and does not have to be aimed directly at the device? -is it able to change the volume by one step (eg -1db, -2db) or only by eg 5db?

Customer Support helped when I had questions/issues thanks! I don't want to sound like I am complaining first, so props to Audiophonics. I am new to "digital hi-fi", so this is just my opinion.
I'm glad to hear that Support is responsive, that's why I'm still interested in this product. You are not doing anything wrong by writing Cons. You enable the manufacturer to develop a more competitive product.
It does not get very loud (at least mine doesn't). I have 6ohm speakers (Revel), don't know if that makes a difference on output.
What did you mean, for example, in terms of power, instead of 400w, you get 40w?
PCM and bit rate are lower than expected using and input (BT/Wi-Fi/OPT/USB). This could be limited on my side, but I cannot figure out how to adjust. My subscriptions (Spotify Premium /Tidal Hi-Fi/KEXP/BandCamp) are running @ 96khz over Bluetooth. The WiiM app over Wi-Fi (802.11ax / WPA3) is running @ 44khz (was 96?). USB connect via Ubuntu or Fedora are running @ 48khz. I assume some of this might be the devices that are connecting, however the Wi-Fi should be native and request and receive the highest possible.
Sound like a bad integration? And if there are no updates available, how does the manufacturer think to fix this problem or does he think that the buyers will send the devices to upgrade every time (lol)? Software is half of the device and if it is bad, then there is no point in starting programming. I haven't bought devices just because the google apps rating is low (I don't want to be nervous).
No EQ function (would be nice to have something)
If I understand correctly, there is no dynamic EQ when listening quiet, so the desire to add bass and treble?
No real documentation or manuals. This is typical recently, documentation is the lost leader. None were supplied and I was sent some as PDF from support, but they are not great or detailed.
This one sounds bad. I also don't see any documentation on the website for the product. You have to search in forums, guess in coffee grounds, it's easier to buy elsewhere.
User serviceable. I would love to update/flash mine to stop the switching noise, however I don't feel like trying to do it myself and it's seems like a long trip back to France to update. I really wish this was an option. Most things digital need to user serviceable for upgrading, bug fixes and most importantly security patching.
Without comments (although mentioned above) and the fact that the support at the beginning said that it is normal, you know, if I buy from a bigger brand, at least I don't have such surprises, even though I paid more for the experience.
The WiiM app seemed like a cool thing until I had it. Not impressed. Initially mine was non-functional. I worked with Audiophonics Support to reset and gain access to the module so I could reset and program it. If I wasn't a network engineer with an enterprise network/lab at home, it could have been a mess for a non-tech person. If you don't have any digital streamer, I see the appeal of a inexpensive option like WiiM. I also understand the benefit for Audiophonics to not have to develop and support software in-house. Easier to just use the Native Apps via Bluetooth from my tablet and the sound quality is not much different to my ears.
I have a Wiim and chose it because of the good App rating and very responsive support, I just believed in this product and I'm not disappointed. Connected with optics.
I hope this helps some people. I am a happy customer. This is the device I have wanted for a while and probably skunks the competition. It is definaetly better than the ones I demoed last year (Cambridge/BlueSound/Naim/Etc) especially in price/performance
I am really happy for you if globally you are satisfied (at least that's what you write).
Please tell me what I could get for example if I replace my Marantz PM6007 with this unit?

I have another question, does the device remember the last state when it was turned on? (I turn the audio on/off with one button on the remote connected to the power relay and when I turn it on it plays music from spotify at the same volume, and the same button turns everything off. The whole life of the audio is one button :).
 

Raxumit

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2022
Messages
34
Likes
67
While looks are subjective (and I really don't see it here), can you describe the sound more (subjectively of course)?
I don't have much experience with fancy amps. I've mostly been using 5+ year old AVRs and sub-$100 Chinese chip-type amps. So I understand what bad clipping sounds like, but that's about it.

I got to max volume and didn't hear any awful/obvious clipping on rock/electronica. At normal listening volumes (< 90 db) it seems totally clean. I'm usually listening between -23 db and -17 db on the volume display.
What do you mean the remote works fine? -does it work in any direction and does not have to be aimed directly at the device?
I have my amp just above the floor, and there is a table in the way most of the time, so I have to do some repositioning and aiming. What I'm trying to say is, I can't comment on aiming/sensitivity - my environment sucks.

I agree that the remote seems fine - very adequate.
-is it able to change the volume by one step (eg -1db, -2db) or only by eg 5db?
Good question.

Volume ranges from -60.0 db (min volume) to 0.0 db (max volume). It proceeds in 1 db steps from -60 to -24 db, after which it proceeds in 0.5 db steps until 0.0 db. Holding the volume buttons rolls the volume at a satisfactory pace. I don't have problems getting to a particular volume range quickly, or fine tuning once there.

The manual describes simpler behavior: "The DA-250NC’s volume attenuation can be adjusted over a range of -60dB to 0dB in 0.5dB steps." I just double checked, and what I described in the paragraph above is true, at least for the latest firmware.

The volume knob is solid and smooth.

Sound like a bad integration? And if there are no updates available, how does the manufacturer think to fix this problem or does he think that the buyers will send the devices to upgrade every time (lol)? Software is half of the device and if it is bad, then there is no point in starting programming. I haven't bought devices just because the google apps rating is low (I don't want to be nervous).
The software in the device is super minimal. As long as they don't go crazy adding things, they may be entirely OK without any future upgrades, at least not until they make new versions of this device (adding inputs like phono, etc.).

That said, it's definitely awkward to do firmware upgrades. I have found them perfectly reasonable to deal with, but I'm fairly technical.

If I understand correctly, there is no dynamic EQ when listening quiet, so the desire to add bass and treble?

This one sounds bad. I also don't see any documentation on the website for the product. You have to search in forums, guess in coffee grounds, it's easier to buy elsewhere.
There's no dynamic EQ or tone controls. You can change the PCM filter for how it cuts off high frequency noise. You can also add 2nd harmonic distortion, +3db, +6db, or +12db, if you want some tube flavor.

The documentation is readily available on the web site. I'm attaching it to this message.
I have another question, does the device remember the last state when it was turned on? (I turn the audio on/off with one button on the remote connected to the power relay and when I turn it on it plays music from spotify at the same volume, and the same button turns everything off. The whole life of the audio is one button :).

Yes. The device will come on at the same volume setting and input as it was when turned off.

General comments:

What's in the device is minimal, but it's all done well as far as I can judge. What's there works. Fit and finish seems very good, although I don't have hardly any experience with expensive audio gear.

I bought this device because I've always somewhat irrationally lusted after a super-beefy amp, but couldn't bear the cost/size/heat of a pair of macho monoblocks. I also just could not get past the idea that I'd have to buy a $300+ DAC just to get a preamp function and a (likely dinky and unsatisfying) volume knob.

(Also, if I'm being honest, I was tired of the cat hitting a button on the ancient AVR I had at his nose level and putting me into some weird Dolby mode and corrupting the sound for an hour until I finally noticed something was wrong. Simpler was way better for me.)

I am assuming the device measures well (which is still to be proven). That aside, when I saw this amp satisfied all of my key requirements 100%, I ordered it. For me value is there, and real.
 

Attachments

  • Audiophonics DA-S250NC - Manual (FR-EN) - Web.pdf
    764.5 KB · Views: 84

sniegs

Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2022
Messages
53
Likes
20
The documentation is readily available on the web site. I'm attaching it to this message.
:facepalm:
(Also, if I'm being honest, I was tired of the cat hitting a button on the ancient AVR I had at his nose level and putting me into some weird Dolby mode and corrupting the sound for an hour until I finally noticed something was wrong. Simpler was way better for me.)
:D
I am assuming the device measures well (which is still to be proven). That aside, when I saw this amp satisfied all of my key requirements 100%, I ordered it. For me value is there, and real.
Thanks for sharing!
 

delfuego

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2022
Messages
27
Likes
61
@sniegs Since Senor @Raxumit answered most of your questions and is way more knowledgeable than me I will defer to him on most of this stuff.

The remote works like it should! I had heard what a pos the topping/smsl/etc and similar remotes are, and am very happy with this one. I can just point it in the general direction and it works.

Regarding documentation, seems like nobody does this much anymore. You computer or mobile phone are the typical examples. Just how it goes. I am not a hi-fi nerd, so a lot of stuff is over my head and I have to start looking up acronyms and recommendations online.

Bitrate / PCM? No clue here. It could be me and my stuff; could be something else. I am not smart enough and don't have free time to bother. It sounds good enough for me. I really think the 192khz is BS and doesn't exist (or if it does) doesn't effect the sound the way I thought it would. 192khz capable might be a better term for me. I can build a network with 25/40/100gb capability, but if the endpoints don't fully utilize it, it's just a lot of headroom...

Regarding the volume... I kinda wanted the ability to piss off the neighbors. Not really the setup for that :) I can however turn it up all the way and don't get any real distortion. I do have some hearing loss (age/concerts/sports/etc). I may get a subwoofer when I find a sale, but no hurry.

Still happy. Would definitely buy Audiophonics again. Cheers, Delfuego
 

ShiftInsert

Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2023
Messages
6
Likes
3
@Audiophonics
I got two DAW-S250NC units a few days ago and got one connected.
When I turn it OFF either with a remote or ON/OFF button on the front (I assume it's a standby mode, power button stays red), the amplifier starts emitting a very high-pitched sound that both me and my wife can hear a few meters away. The sound comes from the box itself, not speakers.

I wouldn't say it's loud, but it's definitly audible and kinda frustrating, as if I am having a slight concussion.

The sound stays on for about 40 seconds even after turning off the unit completely with a Power button on the back, and then goes off.
When the unit is on - there's no such sound, everything is quiet.

Another question is about the green light blinking non-stop on the back of the unit - what does it denote and can it be disabled?
The manual has neither "blink" nor "green" words, and the diod is not even drawn an a rear panel schematics.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Raxumit

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2022
Messages
34
Likes
67
@Audiophonics
I got two DAW-S250NC units a few days ago and got one connected.
When I turn it OFF either with a remote or ON/OFF button on the front (I assume it's a standby mode, power button stays red), the amplifier starts emitting a very high-pitched sound that both me and my wife can hear a few meters away. The sound comes from the box itself, not speakers.

I wouldn't say it's loud, but it's definitly audible and kinda frustrating, as if I am having a slight concussion.

The sound stays on for about 40 seconds even after turning off the unit completely with a Power button on the back, and then goes off.
When the unit is on - there's no such sound, everything is quiet.
Bummer. I've never heard this, but I'm over 50 years old, so my high-end hearing isn't the best. How old are you guys? How high pitched is the noise? Can you record or measure it?

Can you try the other unit to see if it happens on that one as well? It might just be a behavior of the particular Ncore NC252MP board in your amp. If so Audiophonics will probably help you, although you'd likely have to ship it back to them.
Another question is about the green light blinking non-stop on the back of the unit - what does it denote and can it be disabled?
The manual has neither "blink" nor "green" words, and the diod is not even drawn an a rear panel schematics.
Are you talking about this button @DTTOM37 found on his unit? As he said, "I've learned today, that the fluorescent light on the backside is in fact a button, which you need to press for enabling the wifi connection."
 

DTTOM37

Active Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2020
Messages
177
Likes
246
Location
French side of Europe
@Audiophonics
I got two DAW-S250NC units a few days ago and got one connected.
When I turn it OFF either with a remote or ON/OFF button on the front (I assume it's a standby mode, power button stays red), the amplifier starts emitting a very high-pitched sound that both me and my wife can hear a few meters away. The sound comes from the box itself, not speakers.

I wouldn't say it's loud, but it's definitly audible and kinda frustrating, as if I am having a slight concussion.

The sound stays on for about 40 seconds even after turning off the unit completely with a Power button on the back, and then goes off.
When the unit is on - there's no such sound, everything is quiet.

Another question is about the green light blinking non-stop on the back of the unit - what does it denote and can it be disabled?
The manual has neither "blink" nor "green" words, and the diod is not even drawn an a rear panel schematics.

Thanks.
Bonjour fellow DAW user,
as @Raxumit has already mentioned,the green blinking button is a pressable connect button for the wifi module which you can use to connect to the WIIM app. Only the latest generation of DAW units have it, but users may be happy because without using that button - at least myself - couldn't find any other way to connect the device to a network.
When I communicated with the support I've indeed indicated the lack of info about that button in the manual. Guess it will be changed soon.

For you noise problem: Some more precise info could be helpful.
- Does it happen all the time ?
- Does it happen if the unit sets itself into standby?
- Or only with certain sources connected ? If yes. which sources?
- Does it happens as well if nothing, even no spekaer are connected ?
If no, you could work your way to the problem source by connecting one connection a time. If yes -> Audiophonics support.

The 40s ist interesting bc the unit closes the display after a 40 second period, too

I have noted a certain time between pushing the power button (behind) and the full offline status, imho about 20 second. and I had the impression it is a kind of enegry discharge time (if that exists ?). Dunno if this has the same source as your problem?
As a quick solution - why not leaving the unit on - it should have a very low energy consumption in idle state.
Otherwise get in touch with @Audiophonics : They are friendly, competent & supportive.
 

ShiftInsert

Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2023
Messages
6
Likes
3
Bummer. I've never heard this, but I'm over 50 years old, so my high-end hearing isn't the best. How old are you guys? How high pitched is the noise? Can you record or measure it?

Can you try the other unit to see if it happens on that one as well? It might just be a behavior of the particular Ncore NC252MP board in your amp. If so Audiophonics will probably help you, although you'd likely have to ship it back to them.

Are you talking about this button @DTTOM37 found on his unit? As he said, "I've learned today, that the fluorescent light on the backside is in fact a button, which you need to press for enabling the wifi connection."
Hi Raxumit,

I am 46, not far from you, yet I can hear the sound distinctly. Let's also see if you do, as I am attaching 2 recordings made by Samsung 22 Ultra.
Recording 1: First unit with 2.1 speaker set connected
Recording 2: Second unit, nothing connected
I suggest listening on a higher volume, also in real life its more distinct than in the recording.

The phone was directly above the ventilation grid on top of both amplifiers, ~first 5 seconds are normal operation time, then I power it off with a remote, and then in about 20 secs I have to disconnect a power cord because apparently the 0/1 button on the back stopped working on both units, which is really puzzling to me.

I have a video showing that a unit can be turned on from the front with both 0 and 1 positions selected on the back:

Thanks for the hints about that green button :)
 

Attachments

  • HighPitch.zip
    3.6 MB · Views: 41
Last edited:

ShiftInsert

Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2023
Messages
6
Likes
3
Bonjour fellow DAW user,
as @Raxumit has already mentioned,the green blinking button is a pressable connect button for the wifi module which you can use to connect to the WIIM app. Only the latest generation of DAW units have it, but users may be happy because without using that button - at least myself - couldn't find any other way to connect the device to a network.
When I communicated with the support I've indeed indicated the lack of info about that button in the manual. Guess it will be changed soon.

For you noise problem: Some more precise info could be helpful.
- Does it happen all the time ?
- Does it happen if the unit sets itself into standby?
- Or only with certain sources connected ? If yes. which sources?
- Does it happens as well if nothing, even no spekaer are connected ?
If no, you could work your way to the problem source by connecting one connection a time. If yes -> Audiophonics support.

The 40s ist interesting bc the unit closes the display after a 40 second period, too

I have noted a certain time between pushing the power button (behind) and the full offline status, imho about 20 second. and I had the impression it is a kind of enegry discharge time (if that exists ?). Dunno if this has the same source as your problem?
As a quick solution - why not leaving the unit on - it should have a very low energy consumption in idle state.
Otherwise get in touch with @Audiophonics : They are friendly, competent & supportive.
Hello there :)
- Does it happen all the time ?
The noise happens every time I turn off any of 2 units by pressing the power button on the front panel (or with a remote)
- Does it happen if the unit sets itself into standby?
Nope
- Or only with certain sources connected ? If yes. which sources?
Tested both units with connected USB / no sources connected - same result, high pitched noise.
- Does it happens as well if nothing, even no spekaer are connected ?
Yes
This whole issue resembles very much the sounds of low-quality transformators powering my ceiling lamps - I had to replace them exactly because of the high-pitched noise.
 

DTTOM37

Active Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2020
Messages
177
Likes
246
Location
French side of Europe
Hi,
I checked the unit in my hands about that. Seems different, just for geolocation, I am on the French power grid.
The unit, when powered down completely, has no noise emission from the moment the power is cut finally, some 20-30 seconds after physically manipulated (using button behind)
When powered off by remote, there is a low emmittance, when powered on there is an audible emittance (for me) - thus only if I put my ears in the shelf where the unit is located (15 cm distance), 1 meter away I can't notice it at all.
Power state / Noise
off button / no noise emission after 20 seconds, nothing unatural in between
off RC / slight noise up to -75db at 10.5khz and 21.375hz
on / light noise at 7125hz -73db and 21.375hz
I measured with Spectroid for Android
pics attached
 

Attachments

  • DAW 250 Powerr states with Spectroid.zip
    1.3 MB · Views: 36

DTTOM37

Active Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2020
Messages
177
Likes
246
Location
French side of Europe
Hi Raxumit,

I am 46, not far from you, yet I can hear the sound distinctly. Let's also see if you do, as I am attaching 2 recordings made by Samsung 22 Ultra.
Recording 1: First unit with 2.1 speaker set connected
Recording 2: Second unit, nothing connected
I suggest listening on a higher volume, also in real life its more distinct than in the recording.

The phone was directly above the ventilation grid on top of both amplifiers, ~first 5 seconds are normal operation time, then I power it off with a remote, and then in about 20 secs I have to disconnect a power cord because apparently the 0/1 button on the back stopped working on both units, which is really puzzling to me.

I have a video showing that a unit can be turned on from the front with both 0 and 1 positions selected on the back:

Thanks for the hints about that green button :)
@ShiftInsert
Regarding the video you posted on YT , could you leave the camera on for about 40 seconds after you switched off behind ?
I tried to reproduce your findings,
and as I mentioned before, the unit needs some moments to cut off, and in this lead time you can put it off/on manually, but it ends the on state after the amount of time it needs for powering off, and you can't switch it on, neither by power button (front) nor remote.

I may assume my findings are the way it should work ... standard usage wouldn't put the device on during lead time for powering off.

May I suggest that in case your unit shows a defect, you may be better off discussing with @Audiophonics (perhaps pm ?) instead mocking them on social media ?
 

Audiophonics

Member
Dealer
Joined
Oct 4, 2018
Messages
86
Likes
381
Location
France
- Does it happen all the time ?
The noise happens every time I turn off any of 2 units by pressing the power button on the front panel (or with a remote)

This whole issue resembles very much the sounds of low-quality transformators powering my ceiling lamps - I had to replace them exactly because of the high-pitched noise.

Hello,
Yesterday we made some close listining tests on several devices and we think we know what you hear on your model.
It may come from your PSU which is idling.
Please contact our after sales service (On our website, My account page)and we will fix it for you.
 

Audiophonics

Member
Dealer
Joined
Oct 4, 2018
Messages
86
Likes
381
Location
France
@Audiophonics
Another question is about the green light blinking non-stop on the back of the unit - what does it denote and can it be disabled?
The manual has neither "blink" nor "green" words, and the diod is not even drawn an a rear panel schematics.

We updated the manual. It's the Wifi Reset button. Blinking mean that the Wifi module is not connected.
 
Top Bottom