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Audiophiliac gives Audio Science Review channel a plug

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gsp1971

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I am 50 and, although I eventually took a different professional path, I spent the first years of my working life in our family business. So I know what it is to manage your own business, and all the decisions you have to make along the way ... So my experience tells me that this is not about who does the best or the most measurements.

It is about:
  1. Running your own business the way you have imagined it and planned it,
  2. Making a decision about who your target customer is and how you have decided to approach your audience, and (perhaps most importantly)
  3. Having a set of values, professional or personal, that you are not willing to negotiate for anybody or anything
No doubt that both Erin and Amir do valued work, at their own personal expense (time, money, sacrificing other things to do this) and I, for one, thank them immensely for it. It seems that it is their 'business model' that differs.

In any case, my suggestion to the community would be that perhaps it is best if we all stay out of this and not pour fuel on the fire. Grown men will sort it out, one way or another.

I think we should just be appreciative of what we are given here and support it in anyway way we can.
 
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SIY

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I don't think you (or anyone but Erin himself) can make such statements. I'm already aware of multiple instances where he collaborated with brands and manufacturers publicly.

So have I. I don't think it has much of an effect in my reviews of competitors' products or new products of their own, but I let the reader decide. That's one of the nice things about measurements, words can't overcome them.
 

hardisj

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You remember the Gwen Stefani song "Hollaback Girl"?
♫♫ This s*** is BANANAS! B-A-N-A-N-A-S! ♫♫



You know, I thought I'd sleep on it and return here this morning to hopefully see things had cooled down a bit. But that didn't happen. Instead, even more drama ensued and truths are being stretched (or outright lies are being made). So, let me list some things and then I'm going to take a long break from this forum as it is becoming toxic for me to be here:

1) In no way whatsoever was my video about Amir. I don't even see how anyone could reasonably draw that conclusion. I'm baffled. Honestly.


2) I have sent random messages to Amir over the last few months. In those replies he has never, not once said "hey, don't ask for donations". If he had, I would have stopped immediately. Now it's a problem, though.
(And, yes, he has asked me to not post affiliate links here. I stopped. A couple other ones were simply copy/paste things where a link was in the middle of my review somewhere that I forgot about and I promptly deleted them.) Here are my PMs to him. I won't be including the text from his replies because that would likely just create more drama.

July 23rd 2020: Amir messaged me about Amazon affiliate link and asked me to not use them. I deleted it asap. I accidentally had another one later in September 2020. Note, though, there hasn't been an instance since. Not since September 2020; nearly a year ago.​
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September 18, 2020: I sent Amir a "thank you". No reason. I just wanted him to know I appreciated his work and give him some words of encouragement during all the Magnepan drama he went through.​
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Here is where we were talking about me sending him a Parasound amplifier (that I still had planned on sending at some point; I still have it in my possession) and I thanked him for his allowing me to post in his forum. He never said "you're welcome, but just don't ask for donations anymore". Obviously I can't post what he did say... he just gave it a "thumbs up" as you can see. So.... again, I say that if Amir had an issue with me asking for donations or anything else I did why not say it then?​
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Just last week I messaged Amir about me joining the HiFi Summit chat with him and asked if he minded. I honestly would have been OK if he said he'd rather not have me on. And, frankly, I didn't need his permission since @joentell was the one who invited me on. I thought out of respect toward Amir that I ask him directly because I didn't want to seem like I was inserting myself in to something that was supposed to be about him. But I thought it would be a great way for us to finally talk directly and hopefully squash any underlying issues.​
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And, hell, while I'm at it, here is where I even made mention that Amir and I don't always see eye to eye but that we share a common goal and can "get along". Hell, Amir even said "well said" to that. I thought it went quite well. But now we are here. Time stamp to save you trouble. And remember: this was LAST WEEK!!!

So, you can see that I have been respectful even "out of the blue". And now... this. The thick of it we are in right now.



3) As for me not stating where things come from: I haven't with B&H stuff because it's a retailer. Though, I have made it abundantly clear in other threads about my partnership with them that I was getting those items from B&H. At any rate, fair enough, I'll make sure to mention that in future reviews/videos. However, I have tested plenty of things I received from B&H that I have given a "do not buy" recommendation for. I won't link my site because I'm sure that will somehow set off another chain of drama so I'll just link the ASR copy/paste here:

These are on my site and in video. And the "do not buy" are clearly stated. And they all came from B&H. Brand new. So no worries about damaged items. That's a win/win for the community. But, to some apparently it is sacrilege.


4) As for me getting things on loan from manufacturers: I have always stated where they come from. And I have also given honest and fair (even negative to some) reviews of the ones them. Particularly the JBL HDI-3800 and HDI-4500 speakers I reviewed and the first iteration of the Neumi BS5P. Quoting myself: "Note: JBL was kind enough to loan me this item for test. I was not paid for my review and was not told what to say."

Don't forget/ignore that Amir sometimes gets items from manufacturers. He states that in his reviews. The same as I do. I don't see an issue here. But because it's me, it's a problem?

5) Amir uses Patreon and has (up to) a $30/month tier as an option. Amir asks for donations. Amir has upgraded member levels here. I monetize my videos and ask for donations. Apparently monetizing videos makes me the devil. Um, okay? I don't choose what ads run, BTW. Google does that on their own. I am trying to offset my costs in the best way I can.
I don't use Patreon (currently, at least) because I always have felt like that is a platform done to provide "exclusive" content and I don't do "exclusive". My data is for everyone to see. They may have to "suffer" through an occasional YT advertisement... but hey, they didn't pay for my NFS so I gotta do what I gotta do. (and for God's sake, I'm not saying I have a problem with anyone using Patreon so don't start).
Remember, I'm not a retired multi-millionaire like Amir. And, hey, even multi-millionaires can have Patreons and upgraded member status for a fee and contributions via their website. That's cool with me. I don't have a problem with that. I'm just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy here in someone asking for money via all sorts of methods vs the terrible notion that YouTube runs an O'Reilly autoparts commercial in my video or some random audio marketplace. Oh, the horror!!! :D





So, here's the deal...
I've been here for a long time. Breaking my back, falling off ladders (literally), sweating it out in the humid Alabama heat, and otherwise physically and mentally exhausting myself to do something I love doing and provide that data to the public at large. And in most cases, provide it here first. All while juggling a growing family and working a full-time dayjob at the age of 38. What are my sins? Asking for donations (which wasn't a problem until yesterday) and monetizing my videos (which wasn't a problem until yesterday). Thousands have viewed my posts/threads and gotten great information for free without ever donating or watching a video of mine... and actually costing me money via my server space as those photos aren't hosted here. It is perplexing and honestly saddening to me to see that - once Amir decides he wants to go after me - now I am somehow the "enemy" here. Seriously?...

I'm dumbfounded at what has transpired over the last 24 hours with Amir toward me. But, at any rate, I've always tried to be respectful and thankful for what Amir does and you can see all the evidence and video above backing that up. I don't kiss his feet. We have disagreements. But that's life and (after the HiFi Summit chat above) I thought that was behind us. The entire reason I joined that HiFi Summit chat (after getting Amir's OK) was to "meet" Amir and work together to bury the hatchet. So, you guys feel free to draw your own conclusions about WTF is going on here. Because I just can't anymore.

If you want to talk about me anymore just know that - going forward - I won't be replying to this thread. And talking about me in my absence seems a bit weird, doesn't it? If you want, you can email me directly if you like (hardisj @ gmail dot com). I'll give you my phone number and we can chat on the phone. And some of you already have my phone number. I could be petty and go full-tilt. I won't. Honestly, I just can't do this whole "oh, yea, well look at this!" back-and-forth stuff here. It's unhealthy. I'm not backing down. I can stand up for myself. I ain't scared... I've been in real world fights. An online drama-fest isn't really threatening to me. But I don't like doing the online battles. Being a keyboard tough guy doesn't impress me and doesn't get anywhere other than miscommunication and hurt feelings. I'd much rather have a real conversation because it's easier to cut through the fluff. We can do a phone thing or we can do an online video chat. Your call. (no pun intended)

Seeing myself as being painted as the enemy is disheartening and sickening. Overnight I have been made in to an enemy and random shit is being said about me that has no merit. Sooooo... I'll be showing myself the door and won't be returning. Not at least until things turn around here. But as it is, I can see Amir views me as competition and no matter how hard I try he will never be truly accepting of me; finding ways to belittle me and call in to question my character. I don't see the point in having an online spat when we could settle it in better ways. Unfortunately, no one is going to "win" here. Well, except Amir if his goal was to drive me away.

This is something that should have been a blip and now is a full fledged sine wave. (ha! audio joke!!!!)

I'm gonna leave on a positive note:
To those of you whom I'd call friends, I appreciate your support. To those of you I don't know that have been supportive of me: Thank you. Amir, I hope things change on your end and you learn to see me as a fellow reviewer rather than your competition.

Take care everyone!

- Erin
(hardisj @ gmail dot com)


♫♫ This s*** is BANANAS! B-A-N-A-N-A-S! ♫♫



tenor.gif
 
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Lorenzo74

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it’s all about evolution theory…
he just realizes something is happening: klippel, Floyd Toole, Active speakers, DSP, @amirm , @hardisj and like ICE engines will leave the streets to EV, maybe new generations will be less influenced by analog audiophile legacy than current (aging) one.
I’m the only one to actually love his fantastic shirts?
best
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Blaspheme

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This is amplifier clipping, not really the same thing, no?
Interesting, I checked the review: powered speaker, discussion of input levels vs gain, etc. Anyway complicates the argument that this example is equivalent to compression test.
 
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abdo123

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Interesting, I checked the review: powered speaker, discussion of input levels vs gain, etc. Anyway complicates the argument that this example is equivalent to compression test.

to be fair clipping is compression just across the entire frequency range.

checking if distortion rises non-linearly from 86dB to 96 dB is a fair indication that drivers can't play that loud well.
 

amirm

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to be fair clipping is compression just across the entire frequency range.
Because these speakers are often bi-amped, compression can happen independently for each driver. Regardless, once it occurs, it doesn't matter what part of the spectrum it is impacting. You are already outside the bounds of the speaker which distortion graph shows.
 

Mystical Boar

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Erin, when I first found your reviews I was happy there’s another person providing data and I thought your measurements will be of value. But your “I’m the most accurate” statement was really out of the blue and it baffled me. Not because I think that’s not true, but simply because one just doesn’t say stuff like that - out of mere humility and courtesy - even if they have absolute faith in what they’re doing. I look forward to your next reviews, but relax a little bit because this drama is unnecessary to say the least.
 

Haint

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Ultimately it sounds like both of you guy want the same thing, to at least try to "break even" or substantially offset your enormous time and financial investments while bucking the decades long trend of largely useless adjective vomit. Amirm with a well trafficked forum and lifetime of presumably well compensated high level professions can perhaps afford to make ends meet strictly on donations and take on a purely professorial role. Meanwhile, Erin with a new smaller trafficked Youtube channel/Review site and being younger with presumptively smaller coffers might not necessarily have that luxury at this time (and as a result, has to go with monetizing anything he can). Both perfectly valid and understandable approaches, given the very different situations. While ads and affiliate links are generally a conflict of interest, a Klippel data dump would theoretically be difficult to "finesse" (if it's possible at all), and certainly if Erin's goal was to puff or misrepresent mediocre gear to earn a sell, he'd have come out $100k+ ahead going with purely subjective impressions or homemade measurements. Put on each other's shoes and consider the other perspective. Sounds like the rest of your disagreement was a misunderstanding.

P.S. Neither of you guys have the best measurements. Everyone know Audyssey's "After" results hold that distinction.
 
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amirm

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Ultimately it sounds like both of you guy want the same thing, to at least try to "break even" or substantially offset your enormous time and financial investments. Amirm with a well trafficked forum and lifetime of presumably well compensated high level professions can perhaps afford to make ends meet strictly on donations and a professorial role, while Erin with a new smaller trafficked Youtube channel/Review site and being younger with presumptively smaller coffers doesn't necessarily have that luxury at this time (and as a result, has to go with monetizing anything he can). Both perfectly valid and understandable approaches, given very different situations. While ads and affiliate links are generally a conflict of interest, a Klippel data dump would theoretically be difficult to "finesse" (if it's possible at all), and certainly if Erin's goal was to misrepresent mediocre gear to earn a sell, he'd have come out $100k+ ahead going with purely subjective or homemade measurements.
Erin can have any monetization scheme he likes. That's not the issue. Nor do I care about the impact of such on his reviews. That is between you all and him.

It simply is the case that this platform, this forum, is run without any advertising, sponsorships, etc. If a dealer or manufacturer remotely does what Erin has been doing, they would get their hands slapped and hard. Not just by us but also the membership. Indeed it is the membership that catches sponsored links before we ever do. Every time I see Erin's ads, pleas for money, etc. is like someone poking a stick in my eye. It is not proper. It is not ethical. He needs to be respectful of how we run here which means uniform rules for everyone with commercial interest to earn money from audio.

At the risk of stating the obvious, it takes incredible amount of effort, time and money to run this site. It is not right for him to come here and put his hand out for money without so much as asking me if it is OK. Indeed, he knows that I am not OK with it.

I have gotten banned from other forums for just linking to my website that has no ads with an article there. Mere "promotion" of my site was enough for me to get banned. And this was after 16,000 posts and more than a decade of membership. Here we have Erin not only linking to his site, but to a site with sponsored links, advertising, etc.

Despite all this, we have taken no action against him because I see the value membership sees in his work. But then comes this video saying not only he is eating our food for free at our table, but that he claims he can make a better meal than us! Come on now. There is so much of this I can tolerate before letting him know that I was unhappy about what he said. His reaction shouldn't have been to lash out as if he is entitled to do all that he has done including what he said in that video. I can't reward bad behavior by tuning a blind eye because it will simply get worse.

Yes, he is out a ton of money on Klippel. If that is forcing him to act in an unprofessional manner, then seems to me he has made the wrong call. Sadly we have seen this from other members to turned what was a hobby into a profession and overnight became a different person. The desire to make money and fast, corrupts one's senses especially if there is not enough wisdom and coaching to keep them from going there.

If any of you want him back, you need to reach out to him and explain what I just said above. There is nothing I am going to do to get him back. And if does come back, all the pleas for money, links to his website, sponsored links, etc. need to go away. He either plays by the same rule you all play, or none at all.
 

gsp1971

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He either plays by the same rule you all play, or none at all.

In another thread here in ASR, when questioned about the way he runs his business, @boXem | audio drew the line by saying the following, referring to his business: "My baby, my decisions". Fair enough.
Same concept here. Amir says: "My website, my rules, applicable to all".
This website is the result of someone's passion, time and pocket. It would sadden me to see this great effort that is ASR close down due to improper conduct, wherever it is coming from.
We should all respect ASR rules. We are all guests here.
 

Haint

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Erin can have any monetization scheme he likes. That's not the issue. Nor do I care about the impact of such on his reviews. That is between you all and him.

It simply is the case that this platform, this forum, is run without any advertising, sponsorships, etc. If a dealer or manufacturer remotely does what Erin has been doing, they would get their hands slapped and hard. Not just by us but also the membership. Indeed it is the membership that catches sponsored links before we ever do. Every time I see Erin's ads, pleas for money, etc. is like someone poking a stick in my eye. It is not proper. It is not ethical. He needs to be respectful of how we run here which means uniform rules for everyone with commercial interest to earn money from audio.

At the risk of stating the obvious, it takes incredible amount of effort, time and money to run this site. It is not right for him to come here and put his hand out for money without so much as asking me if it is OK. Indeed, he knows that I am not OK with it.

I have gotten banned from other forums for just linking to my website that has no ads with an article there. Mere "promotion" of my site was enough for me to get banned. And this was after 16,000 posts and more than a decade of membership. Here we have Erin not only linking to his site, but to a site with sponsored links, advertising, etc.

Despite all this, we have taken no action against him because I see the value membership sees in his work. But then comes this video saying not only he is eating our food for free at our table, but that he claims he can make a better meal than us! Come on now. There is so much of this I can tolerate before letting him know that I was unhappy about what he said. His reaction shouldn't have been to lash out as if he is entitled to do all that he has done including what he said in that video. I can't reward bad behavior by tuning a blind eye because it will simply get worse.

Yes, he is out a ton of money on Klippel. If that is forcing him to act in an unprofessional manner, then seems to me he has made the wrong call. Sadly we have seen this from other members to turned what was a hobby into a profession and overnight became a different person. The desire to make money and fast, corrupts one's senses especially if there is not enough wisdom and coaching to keep them from going there.

If any of you want him back, you need to reach out to him and explain what I just said above. There is nothing I am going to do to get him back. And if does come back, all the pleas for money, links to his website, sponsored links, etc. need to go away. He either plays by the same rule you all play, or none at all.

Yeah, it's definitely understandable that you don't want anyone soliciting donations or linking any ads/affiliates on your site. Based on Erin's responses, it sounds like there might have been some kind of miscommunication or misunderstanding on that.
 

diddley

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Well Amir has explained it very clear several times now.
Erin should stop being stubborn and return to this forum.If he can't then it's a pity but nothing that this forum won't survive.
That's my 0.02cents.
p.s. I value the effort that Amir is putting in this forum to keep it not dependable from advertising.
He could do it and made a fortune but choose to actively do not so.That's something to think about.
 

Kishore

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I value both Amir's and Erin's efforts but agree with Amir here-you have to stay out of the pool to criticize same those using it :cool:

At least I am glad disclosures and honesty and awareness about it is slowly percolating out upfront- this is good small step..considering so many youtube BS videos 'reviews' still being created.
 
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I value both Amir's and Erin's efforts but agree with Amir here-you have to stay out of the pool to criticize same those using it :cool:

At least I am glad disclosures and honesty and awareness about it is slowly percolating out upfront- this is good small step..considering so many youtube BS videos 'reviews' still being created.
How are all the "donations" Amir accepts any different . You can't be serious with your reasoning. A millionaire accepting donations is ridiculous in and of itself but then for Amir to be so hypocritical and chastise Erin from something he does himself. Get out of here with that nonsense. I see nothing has changed on this site. People gatwe to worship at the altar of Amir. I am sure I will get banned soon enough. The hypocrisy is overwhelming.
 

Vovgan

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He posts videos here that Google monetizes for him using advertising. Here is how it looks on the video he post here:

Do you have “YouTube Premium” service from Google in the US? We have it in Russia and for ~$5/month all advertisements are removed from all videos. I cringe every time I have to watch YouTube on someone else’s device when they don’t have this subscription. Creators still receive money from Google for me watching their videos from the money I pay for YouTube premium.

In countries where YouTube premium is available seeing ads is a self-imposed punishment, not creator’s fault.
 
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