Audiophilia nervosa

[Timcognito]

Let me suggest a method which can refocus your attention to music without switching hardware.The method is easiest for classical music fans, but might work in other genres, if not so easily.

Chose a favorite, frequently performed and recorded piece of music. Buy a copy of every recording done of it in the modern era. (At least six is good, more would be better.) A warhorse like Beethoven's Sixth Symphony would be an excellent choice. Sit down with or without a beer and listen to every single one of the performances, even if it takes several listening sessions. Repeat as necessary until you start ignoring the recording quality and start obsessing about the performances.

This does work, and it has the added bonuses of expanding your music library and not stripping you of the ability to obsess about your gear, an itch you can now productively scratch while listening to the best recorded Beethoven 6.

Although the Pastoral Symphony is my favorite symphony from Beethoven, the Emperor Concerto, Concerto #5 would have been my choice, both have quiet passages and nice piano solos. But alas, there is too much modern surf, cumbia, trip-hop, choir, jazz... and days, months, years grow shorter and shorter, flying buy, so one piece is not gonna do it for me, but some favs never die.

 

[MattHooper]

I have obsessive tendencies with all of my hobbies, be it audio, cars or cycling. There comes a point where I can drive myself mad and I draw a line under where I’m at.

With audio I’ve reached a point where I’m happy in the knowledge that my electronics are audibly transparent, my speakers are good and my subjective listening experience in my living room is very satisfying to me and is no doubt far better than what the masses living room experience is.

I am not going down the room measurements and DSP route because I know in doing so I’ll start to obsess over getting that graph as close to the perfect downward tilt with as few peaks and troughs as possible and I’ll probably then start to hear the flaws that graph is highlighting which I am otherwise blissfully unaware of. Sometimes ignorance can be bliss.

I’ve learned from this forum that both pairs of my Beyerdynamic headphones measure poorly despite being universally used in studios and professional environments all around the world. I started listening for these faults which I didn’t perceive as a problem before seeing the graphs and then I came to the conclusion I really don’t care enough that my headphones have a treble peak many find displeasing. It’s not displeasing to me at the volume I listen at, so I am continuing to enjoy music on them as I always have.

I’ve also added a simple Schiit Loki tone control to my system for some minor tweak ability with some source material on the fly as I pick and choose or not.

Striving for accuracy is important, but sometimes for me it’s important to remember why I ended up here. I enjoy listening to recorded music and my satisfaction doesn’t need to depend on chasing the best in room graph response analysing every flaw in my room and transducers. It’s a step too far for me which would drive me mad. It’s bad enough switching from album to album hearing the glaringly obvious differences in recording and mastering which are beyond my control.

Knowing what products will make good potential purchases in the future along with understanding what things really do and do not make a difference in audio reproduction is why I’m here. I’ve come to terms with the thought that if what I’m hearing is pleasing me or impressing me - then I’m in a good place as an audiophile.

Well put, and you are not the only one who feels this way.

A lot of the expert advice suggests or implies various steps are mandatory or “ essential” (whether it’s correcting room dependant regions below 300hz, using multiple subs or whatever). And while it may be the case that might result in even better sound, it doesn’t mean one isn’t already experiencing terrific sound without such steps. Audiophiles were achieving compelling sound for a for a long time before room correction became ubiquitous. When my audiophile dad brought home KEF 105.2 speakers and Carver amplification, the sound was a revelation. Many of my friends would come over to my place just to listen to that system because it blew their minds. No room correction required. Same with virtually all the systems I’ve had in my own listening room. Could the sound be improved upon? No doubt. But was the sound already amazing? Absolutely.

Information about how to battle problems in room response, and how this all can improve sound quality is certainly great. But there’s a certain level of “ if you’re not doing this, you’re not doing it right or you’re really not hearing great sound, and these steps are imperative to truly good sound “ that leads some people to fret about those sinister modes in the room, keep chasing more perfect room, response, etc. when they may already have quite good sound.

And like you, it’s always good to know thyself. I don’t need yet another thing to fret about, and distract me from the fact I am so incredibly happy with the sound I have.

 

[egellings]

That's true. If this forum and the collective membership has helped me with anything, then realising (in both senses) that great music enjoyment on excellent gear is actually quite simple and very affordable. A bit like the good old rule: 20% effort (and money) gets you 80% there. Follow some basic rules and it's 90% easily. Those last 10% are what can be stressing and very expensive.

Also, that very last echelon has you paying large amounts for tiny or imagined improvements. The closer you get to perfection, the further away from it you think you are, and microscopic improvements cost macroscopic amounts of money. It's asymptotic.

 

[Purité Audio]

That’s not true, electronics are now ‘perfect’ higher price doesn’t buy better performance, full range loudspeakers which will play loudly still cost purely because of the real estate used.
Keith

 

[Mean & Green]

Well put, and you are not the only one who feels this way.

A lot of the expert advice suggests or implies various steps are mandatory or “ essential” (whether it’s correcting room dependant regions below 300hz, using multiple subs or whatever). And while it may be the case that might result in even better sound, it doesn’t mean one isn’t already experiencing terrific sound without such steps. Audiophiles were achieving compelling sound for a for a long time before room correction became ubiquitous. When my audiophile dad brought home KEF 105.2 speakers and Carver amplification, the sound was a revelation. Many of my friends would come over to my place just to listen to that system because it blew their minds. No room correction required. Same with virtually all the systems I’ve had in my own listening room. Could the sound be improved upon? No doubt. But was the sound already amazing? Absolutely.

Information about how to battle problems in room response, and how this all can improve sound quality is certainly great. But there’s a certain level of “ if you’re not doing this, you’re not doing it right or you’re really not hearing great sound, and these steps are imperative to truly good sound “ that leads some people to fret about those sinister modes in the room, keep chasing more perfect room, response, etc. when they may already have quite good sound.

And like you, it’s always good to know thyself. I don’t need yet another thing to fret about, and distract me from the fact I am so incredibly happy with the sound I have.

Well put Matt, I concur entirely.

 

[egellings]

That’s not true, electronics are now ‘perfect’ higher price doesn’t buy better performance, full range loudspeakers which will play loudly still cost purely because of the real estate used.
Keith

True. But for people caught up in that merry go round, that is not understood to be true. They may like one amplifier more than another, even though both impose the same voltage waveform across the speaker terminals. Equipment appearances may influence what they imagine they hear. As an example, if one amp is large and impressive looking, that amp may be thought to sound better because by looking at it, it is expected to sound better.

 

[Purité Audio]

Quote,
‘Audiophiles were achieving compelling sound for a for a long time before room correction became ubiquitous.’
We’re they though, over here if you purchased a pair of loudspeakers whose bass extension excited the room apart from shuffling them backwards and forwards there was little alternative but to sell them for something smaller.
Keith

 

[Ropeburn]

Quote,
‘Audiophiles were achieving compelling sound for a for a long time before room correction became ubiquitous.’
We’re they though, over here if you purchased a pair of loudspeakers whose bass extension excited the room apart from shuffling them backwards and forwards there was little alternative but to sell them for something smaller.
Keith

Wait a minute, wasn't that also the time when graphic EQs were fashionable? The more bands, the better, for the exact reason you described? Apart from looking cool brag factor, obviously.

 

[MattHooper]

Quote,
‘Audiophiles were achieving compelling sound for a for a long time before room correction became ubiquitous.’
We’re they though, over here if you purchased a pair of loudspeakers whose bass extension excited the room apart from shuffling them backwards and forwards there was little alternative but to sell them for something smaller.
Keith

is that in Europe?

I’ve known a hell of a lot of audiophiles and listen to a lot of their systems, and I can’t think of one who didn’t achieve a system, if not more than one system, that they found incredibly exciting and compelling. I mean that’s pretty much why they became and remained audiophiles in the first place.

I got back into high-end audio in the early 90s by visiting a friend who had Quad 63s set up in a very teeny basement room. They were a revelation. Same as when I put those in my 15’ x 13’ room. I’ve probably had around 22 or more different types of loudspeakers from full range to monitor in my room, and all sounded fantastic. Could some have been improved upon? Probably. But they all sounded wonderful.

I remember one of the most amazing Sonic experience that I ever had was listening to MBL 101D speakers, in an almost ludicrously small room - a TAS reviewer. It was mind blowing.

But my main point is, the reason most people have been audiophiles through the past until the present is because they had managed to achieve what they found to be compelling sound quality. And this has been done in countless different types of rooms with countless different types of loudspeakers, without room correction.

 

[Doodski]

is that in Europe?

I’ve known a hell of a lot of audiophiles and listen to a lot of their systems, and I can’t think of one who didn’t achieve a system, if not more than one system, that they found incredibly exciting and compelling. I mean that’s pretty much why they became and remained audiophiles in the first place.

I got back into high-end audio in the early 90s by visiting a friend who had Quad 63s set up in a very teeny basement room. They were a revelation. Same as when I put those in my 15’ x 13’ room. I’ve probably had around 22 or more different types of loudspeakers from full range to monitor in my room, and all sounded fantastic. Could some have been improved upon? Probably. But they all sounded wonderful.

I remember one of the most amazing Sonic experience that I ever had was listening to MBL 101D speakers, in an almost ludicrously small room - a TAS reviewer. It was mind blowing.

But my main point is, the reason most people have been audiophiles through the past until the present is because they had managed to achieve what they found to be compelling sound quality. And this has been done in countless different types of rooms with countless different types of loudspeakers, without room correction.

I remember my first pair of ENERGY ESM-3 loudspeakers with a real life dome tweeters, a technics SU-V303 integrated amp and a technics Quartz lock fully auto turntable. I thought I hit it big time. From there I upgraded constantly with free gear and at my peak I had 14 pair of speakers delivered to my home by a freight truck one afternoon. Winnings in a sales contest. I had to get in contact with the chain/store owner that I worked for and ask if he could buy them because for me to be selling 14 pair of speakers in competition with him would have been a conflict of interest. Some of my favs where MB Quart, KEF, ENERGY, JBL and B&W.

 

[Thomas Savage]

is that in Europe?

I’ve known a hell of a lot of audiophiles and listen to a lot of their systems, and I can’t think of one who didn’t achieve a system, if not more than one system, that they found incredibly exciting and compelling. I mean that’s pretty much why they became and remained audiophiles in the first place.

I got back into high-end audio in the early 90s by visiting a friend who had Quad 63s set up in a very teeny basement room. They were a revelation. Same as when I put those in my 15’ x 13’ room. I’ve probably had around 22 or more different types of loudspeakers from full range to monitor in my room, and all sounded fantastic. Could some have been improved upon? Probably. But they all sounded wonderful.

I remember one of the most amazing Sonic experience that I ever had was listening to MBL 101D speakers, in an almost ludicrously small room - a TAS reviewer. It was mind blowing.

But my main point is, the reason most people have been audiophiles through the past until the present is because they had managed to achieve what they found to be compelling sound quality. And this has been done in countless different types of rooms with countless different types of loudspeakers, without room correction.

Having been given confidence by your stance here I think it's time I confessed to enjoying listening to mono .. , now some of the brothers might start frothing from the mouth reading that.

If I had a pound for every gig iv been too where I can't here the bass guitar I'd be at least £50 better off , ditto at jazz gigs when the double bass is totally missing in action where I'm sitting ..

That happens at home and I lose my shit, that's why I need room correction

 

[Titurel]

Although the Pastoral Symphony is my favorite symphony from Beethoven, the Emperor Concerto, Concerto #5 would have been my choice, both have quiet passages and nice piano solos. But alas, there is too much modern surf, cumbia, trip-hop, choir, jazz... and days, months, years grow shorter and shorter, flying buy, so one piece is not gonna do it for me, but some favs never die.

My point was that purposefully listening to music rather than to gear could open up or develop such a skill for various purposes - i.e., sequester listening to gear from listening for musical performance, from listening for pleasure, etc. Any piece "covered" sufficiently would serve, See below a link to a list of frequently covered songs. The most covered tune (according to this list) was a surprise, even though I was quite familiar with the tune.

Most-covered songs of all time

Stacker compiled a list of data from WhoSampled.com to discover what the most covered songs of all time were, across all genres and timeframes.

stacker.com

 

[Ropeburn]

is that in Europe?

I’ve known a hell of a lot of audiophiles and listen to a lot of their systems, and I can’t think of one who didn’t achieve a system, if not more than one system, that they found incredibly exciting and compelling. I mean that’s pretty much why they became and remained audiophiles in the first place.

I got back into high-end audio in the early 90s by visiting a friend who had Quad 63s set up in a very teeny basement room. They were a revelation. Same as when I put those in my 15’ x 13’ room. I’ve probably had around 22 or more different types of loudspeakers from full range to monitor in my room, and all sounded fantastic. Could some have been improved upon? Probably. But they all sounded wonderful.

I remember one of the most amazing Sonic experience that I ever had was listening to MBL 101D speakers, in an almost ludicrously small room - a TAS reviewer. It was mind blowing.

But my main point is, the reason most people have been audiophiles through the past until the present is because they had managed to achieve what they found to be compelling sound quality. And this has been done in countless different types of rooms with countless different types of loudspeakers, without room correction.

Well I can tell you it's been the same in Europe. The average living rooms are rather small, and before minimalist "modern" decor became a thing, they were pretty well dampened. Lots of heavy furniture, carpets, wall plastered with pictures, curtains, the whole lot. You just put nice speakers there and later additional subwoofer, basic EQ, and got a great sound with minimal effort. Every German dad for example with a shred of pride had a big stereo.

Nobody cared about room correction first because it wasn't a thing, second because it wasn't very neccessary even by rational standards. I grew up with that and still don't care. I'm probably missing out on a shred of sound quality, but it really seems like not worth the money and effort. Better invest in nice speakers instead, take basic care with placement, and that's it. Great enjoyment and fuck all that tinkering. Doesn't seem worth the stress. I like music first, and technology only second.

 

[kemmler3D]

A lot of the expert advice suggests or implies various steps are mandatory or “ essential” (whether it’s correcting room dependant regions below 300hz, using multiple subs or whatever). And while it may be the case that might result in even better sound, it doesn’t mean one isn’t already experiencing terrific sound without such steps.

This is true. It's hard to give a lot of nuance when people come in asking for advice. Some of the stuff like "use room correction" is so beneficial in terms of cost-effectiveness that it's tempting to call it "mandatory". I'm guilty of this, I've called subs and DSP "almost not optional" before.

But this is assuming people have a certain inclination to messing with gear and a healthy relationship to tweaking their systems. We assume people are walking the path no matter what, and we see that some paths are clearly better than others, so we say "definitely, take this path and not that one". But for some people, not walking the path, or stopping early, might be the better option.

For we enthusiasts, it's hard to imagine someone being stressed out by this stuff. I have always enjoyed messing with audio just for the sake of messing with audio. But I think that makes me the weird one in these discussions.

 

[Ropeburn]

This is true. It's hard to give a lot of nuance when people come in asking for advice. Some of the stuff like "use room correction" is so beneficial in terms of cost-effectiveness that it's tempting to call it "mandatory". I'm guilty of this, I've called subs and DSP "almost not optional" before.

But this is assuming people have a certain inclination to messing with gear and a healthy relationship to tweaking their systems. We assume people are walking the path no matter what, and we see that some paths are clearly better than others, so we say "definitely, take this path and not that one". But for some people, not walking the path, or stopping early, might be the better option.

For we enthusiasts, it's hard to imagine someone being stressed out by this stuff. I have always enjoyed messing with audio just for the sake of messing with audio. But I think that makes me the weird one in these discussions.

While I'm not like you, I don't think you're the weird one here. Let's be honest, we're (almost all) men here, and we like to nerd out and obssess over stuff, especially hobbies we developed a passion for. Not war, but passionate men and their obsessions is the mother of all invention. Not trying to diminish the historical impact of women here - which is significant - but yeah, audio is mainly a male driven passion, and we shall acknowledge and judge it accordingly.

Then there's the "nerd" aspect. The biggest nerds in history have always been somewhat autistic. It seems to help with being obsessed. Again, let's be honest: if you're a super duper audiophile and music fan, and taking it to the extreme to varying degrees, you're probably somewhere "on the spectrum".

Personally I've never been diagnosed, but in hindsight there's been signs all my life. Stereo systems by themselves never was a big obsession. Blessed by winning a really good sub/sat system in 1999 when I was 17 or 18, good sound with deep bass in an average room never was a problem. Only last year I got new speakers - talk about how satisfying the old ones were for 25 years.

What I obsessed about for long years instead was the very source: the music itself. I fancied myself an artist and tinkered with a lot of synthesizers and fx boxes and various production methods, to mimic and achieve the kind of sound I heard on my favourite records. At a point I had over 30 devices connected to a big 24ch mixer and 8ch i/o audio interface for my PC. What a pity that my musical talent turned out to be rather limited; otherwise I might have ended up adding to the substance of the universe, or something. Lol. (Sidenote: wild criss-cross connections of audio and data and asymmetric and symmetric and everything. Zero hum and ground loops whatsoever. Until this day I know what a "ground loop" is, but only theoretically).

And you know what? It's all a nice hobby and gives you something to do in your spare time, and it's all much fun. But you need to let go. The most important lesson in life I ever learned is recognising when stuff is good enough. Technical perfectionism gets you nowhere, you need to catch the essence of it all instead. As a sergeant in the army I learned: achieve the mission, kill the enemy, survive yourself. In music production it is: make it sound good and kick arse, then it's good enough. Don't keep stressing over details, it gets you nowhere.

Choosing, purchasing and setting up a stereo for your particular situation is a really mundane task compared. It's so simple, if you halfway know what you're doing. The most important lesson is maybe: do your research (with ASR being a very helpful resource), make informed decisions, choose the right kind of speakers for your room and sound/loudness desires, and you'll be blessed with excellent sound - easily.

I get how a lot of us can easily get obsessed with seemingly important aspects. Oh, that room mode! Omg, the slight midrange bump. Holy shit, that tiny resonance I measured in my speakers, I must now tear them apart and reinforce the whole cabinet and while I'm at it, "upgrade" the crossover with Mundorf caps for 30 moneys a piece!

Fuck this shit, I say. Don't get hung up on details, use your most powerful resource instead: your brain. Its plasticity and adaptivity is the best thing ever happening to a great ape who simply wants to enjoy some good fucking music. Give yourself time, and you'll adapt. For free. In the meantime, make good audio decisions following the most basic of rules, and you'll be golden. Guaranteed.

End rant.

 

[MattHooper]

This is true. It's hard to give a lot of nuance when people come in asking for advice. Some of the stuff like "use room correction" is so beneficial in terms of cost-effectiveness that it's tempting to call it "mandatory". I'm guilty of this, I've called subs and DSP "almost not optional" before.

But this is assuming people have a certain inclination to messing with gear and a healthy relationship to tweaking their systems. We assume people are walking the path no matter what, and we see that some paths are clearly better than others, so we say "definitely, take this path and not that one". But for some people, not walking the path, or stopping early, might be the better option.

Agreed. Information about the benefits of room correction, subwoofers, etc. should absolutely be part of the discussion. The more information the better generally speaking, and then it’s up to somebody to decide how far they want to go.

It’s just also good to zoom back out sometimes and maintain some perspective.

. I have always enjoyed messing with audio just for the sake of messing with audio. But I think that makes me the weird one in these discussions.

Far from it, I think. Even those who have the purported goal of “ just having a neutral system so that I don’t think about the equipment and just above the recordings” find a way to mess with audio.

I enjoy messing with audio; I see audio systems as something to manipulate in the ways I like. Which, given the fact I manipulate sound for a living, might not be surprising.

But even so, I go through my periods of doing so and then engage in much longer periods of sitting back and just enjoying the benefits.
For me tweaking things around is fun until it’s not fun and then it’s just about enjoying music on the system.

 

[Multicore]

Now I use music to listen to my system. Compulsively, which is alien to me with everything else. I want the simple fun of listening to music back. Is there a therapy?

I can suggest a few things that may or may not help. Easy to try.

1. Do some of those fiendish listening tests to see if you can tell the difference between X and Y, e.g. MP3 and WAV.

2. Listen to some loudish music that you emotionally connect with very intensely on really terrible audio, e.g. your phone's built in speakers or a miniature BT speaker or something like that. Don't choose classical or something too delicate to really hear on the crappy gear. The idea is to notice that the music still works, it affects you emotionally. If necessary, get half sauced.

3. Collect and listen badly recorded good music.

Good music survives. If the music is blah then you've got every reason to listen to your gear or to the room or anything but the music. But good music survives bad audio and hits home all the same. Demonstrate this to yourself by provoking your emotional responses.

 

[Doodski]

I can suggest a few things that may or may not help. Easy to try.

1. Do some of those fiendish listening tests to see if you can tell the difference between X and Y, e.g. MP3 and WAV.

2. Listen to some loudish music that you emotionally connect with very intensely on really terrible audio, e.g. your phone's built in speakers or a miniature BT speaker or something like that. Don't choose classical or something too delicate to really hear on the crappy gear. The idea is to notice that the music still works, it affects you emotionally. If necessary, get half sauced.

3. Collect and listen badly recorded good music.

Good music survives. If the music is blah then you've got every reason to listen to your gear or to the room or anything but the music. But good music survives bad audio and hits home all the same. Demonstrate this to yourself by provoking your emotional responses.

Like this horrible sounding Buffalo Springfield historical gem survives.

 

[MatrixS2000]

If you can hear something wrong or you see it clearly in measurements, go ahead and fix it.

If not, be comfortable in the knowledge that your system doesn't have anything wrong with it.

Great 2 lines of advice…this should be made into a motto.

 

[Ropeburn]

I can suggest a few things that may or may not help. Easy to try.

1. Do some of those fiendish listening tests to see if you can tell the difference between X and Y, e.g. MP3 and WAV.

2. Listen to some loudish music that you emotionally connect with very intensely on really terrible audio, e.g. your phone's built in speakers or a miniature BT speaker or something like that. Don't choose classical or something too delicate to really hear on the crappy gear. The idea is to notice that the music still works, it affects you emotionally. If necessary, get half sauced.

3. Collect and listen badly recorded good music.

Good music survives. If the music is blah then you've got every reason to listen to your gear or to the room or anything but the music. But good music survives bad audio and hits home all the same. Demonstrate this to yourself by provoking your emotional responses.

Hahaha I really think you hit the nail right on the head here. We barely evolved apes fancy ourselves to be very rational creatures, like the fictional Vulcans of Star Trek we invented ourselves - while in reality we're still the same old slaves to our emotions and hormones we were one million years ago, when the first proto-human invented the bone flute, and the tribe shaman banged the big drum to it.