Audiophiles, generally don't like class D amps!

[voodooless]

http://www.radie.us/literature/b_k/Previous%20Amp%20Specs.pdf

Better specs here. The ST 202 is on page 4.

That .9% was a typo, it was listed as .09% for THD and IMD. So a Sinad of about -60 db roughly.

Ah, thanks! That's much better indeed Still -60 should be very hard to hear at the best of times.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

A fun fact: Accuphase used to place metal weights inside their inexpensive Japanese plastic remote controls to make them feel more 'solid' in the hand. So did Cambridge Audio with cheap Chinese remotes. Nobody is immune to the flimsy remote plague it would seem.

Bang & Olufsen did that as well.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Ah, thanks! That's much better indeed Still -60 should be very hard to hear at the best of times.

Yes probably not audible on music. Also B&K did follow all the FTC rules on their specs so that would be the number for continuous power output from 5hz to 45 khz. Now testing of the smaller ST140 by Stereophile indicated it had problems with 4 ohm loads, and increasing distortion with frequency. So maybe with a tough load in the treble it might not be so well behaved. I knew someone with some ST202 and Maggies which are a 4 ohm load and they were just fine on those.

 

[Porter]

Yes probably not audible on music. Also B&K did follow all the FTC rules on their specs so that would be the number for continuous power output from 5hz to 45 khz. Now testing of the smaller ST140 by Stereophile indicated it had problems with 4 ohm loads, and increasing distortion with frequency. So maybe with a tough load in the treble it might not be so well behaved. I knew someone with some ST202 and Maggies which are a 4 ohm load and they were just fine on those.

My B&K is just fine, it's not the B&K that had the high frequency issue with the Klipsch. Sounded great, honestly. I've also run Maggies on this ST-202 and it worked well.

 

[jkorten]

Waking up an old thread - I find it is not the case that audiophiles don't like Class D. In fact they get good reviews. I switched from Tube to Class D because Class D sounds the most like tubes to me. The rise time, or the ability to drive a load at high frequency seems to be similar so I hear the same level of transparency in Class D that I heard in tubes. Solid state preamps have come so far (Schiit Kara) that swapping out my old tube preamp was a no brainer too. Now good class D has gotten so inexpensive (TPA-3255) that I wonder how much longer Hypex will be able to maintain their pricing.

 

[steve59]

I think Rowland and Aavik make some very expensive class D amps that well heeled 'audiophiles' have recommended, but when you start talking +$30k for an amplifier there's an awful lot of good products that have to be ignored.

 

[mocenigo]

Waking up an old thread - I find it is not the case that audiophiles don't like Class D. In fact they get good reviews.

It has been slow, but audiophiles have been warming to the “cold” class D amps for some time.

I switched from Tube to Class D because Class D sounds the most like tubes to me. The rise time, or the ability to drive a load at high frequency seems to be similar so I hear the same level of transparency in Class D that I heard in tubes.

Interesting. Anyway, apparently the rendering of treble frequencies has significantly improved with the last generations of class D amps. There is still a gap between the better ones and the cheaper ones whose distortion rises quickly already at low wattages.

Solid state preamps have come so far (Schiit Kara) that swapping out my old tube preamp was a no brainer too. Now good class D has gotten so inexpensive (TPA-3255) that I wonder how much longer Hypex will be able to maintain their pricing.

There is a difference in power and noise levels that is quite significant between Hypex NC/NCx, Purifi, ICEedge on one side and these TPA-3255 based amplifiers, and noise may become audible on the latter with sensitive speakers. And I expect this difference to remain for quite a while.

 

[Koeitje]

I think Rowland and Aavik make some very expensive class D amps that well heeled 'audiophiles' have recommended, but when you start talking +$30k for an amplifier there's an awful lot of good products that have to be ignored.

This garbage?

Jeff Rowland 535 Stereo Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Jeff Rowland 535 stereo (bridgeable) amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member. I believe it costs US $5,900. If you are not familiar with Jeff Rowland, it is a high-end audio company, known for their gorgeous machining of their cases that...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Or is this too cheap to get anything good from Jeff Rowland?

 

[dlaloum]

It has been slow, but audiophiles have been warming to the “cold” class D amps for some time.

Depends on how you define "audiophile".

 

[posvibes]

Depends on how you define "audiophile".

Depends on how you define "define".

 

[IPunchCholla]

It has been slow, but audiophiles have been warming to the “cold” class D amps for some time.



Interesting. Anyway, apparently the rendering of treble frequencies has significantly improved with the last generations of class D amps. There is still a gap between the better ones and the cheaper ones whose distortion rises quickly already at low wattages.



There is a difference in power and noise levels that is quite significant between Hypex NC/NCx, Purifi, ICEedge on one side and these TPA-3255 based amplifiers, and noise may become audible on the latter with sensitive speakers. And I expect this difference to remain for quite a while.

Power is still an issue, but TPA3255s with PFFB, like the 3e Audio module, have an SNR of 121db.

 

[jkorten]

Power is still an issue, but TPA3255s with PFFB, like the 3e Audio module, have an SNR of 121db.

And in my opinion, the sound is fantastic (E3 version right now, building some Sylphs to compare). The detail and high frequency information and the roundness and tunefullness of the lower midrange and upper bass. Very impressive. Like a killer app. I have fairly sensitive spekers (89db I believe - Harbeth SHL5) and noise is not an issue. I do live in an NYC apartment. But a fairly quiet one.

 

[mhardy6647]

Depends on how you define "define".

definitely.

 

[JSmith]

definitely

Is that definitive?


JSmith

 

[mhardy6647]

deafeningly so.

 

[atmasphere]

Waking up an old thread - I find it is not the case that audiophiles don't like Class D. In fact they get good reviews. I switched from Tube to Class D because Class D sounds the most like tubes to me. The rise time, or the ability to drive a load at high frequency seems to be similar so I hear the same level of transparency in Class D that I heard in tubes.

As a manufacturer of tube amps the last 45 1/2 years, I'm of the opinion that tube power amplifiers are on borrowed time. Other than overload character, there's nothing that tubes do that class D can't do as well or better. I'm of the opinion also that manufacturers of traditional A or AB solid state amps are on notice that they will have to get a handle on class D or get left behind.

 

[Porter]

Waking up an old thread - I find it is not the case that audiophiles don't like Class D. In fact they get good reviews. I switched from Tube to Class D because Class D sounds the most like tubes to me. The rise time, or the ability to drive a load at high frequency seems to be similar so I hear the same level of transparency in Class D that I heard in tubes. Solid state preamps have come so far (Schiit Kara) that swapping out my old tube preamp was a no brainer too. Now good class D has gotten so inexpensive (TPA-3255) that I wonder how much longer Hypex will be able to maintain their pricing.

You have me looking back at my own posts on this thread.

As an update: the shrillness I experienced with the Klipsch Heresy IV and the Hypex amp in my NAD M10 was not present with the Buckeye Purifi amp that I later upgraded to. Nor was it present with the Hypex amp in the NAD M10 when coupled with other speakers. It seemed to be the specific combination of amp and load that created the issue, not a "characteristic" of either the amp or the speakers on their own.

The NAD M10 sounded great when paired with any of the other speakers I've used over time, including the Philharmonic BMR Monitors that I'm now using as mains. And the Klipsch sounded good (within the norms for Klipsch Heritage products) when attached to any other amp.

I'm currently enjoying my Buckeye Purifi 1ET400A three channel amp as front stage amplification for a trio of Philharmonic BMRs, with my Denon X4800H doing pre/pro duty and driving the surround channels with the remainder of its internal amps. Sounds great.

 

[pseudoid]

As a manufacturer of tube amps the last 45 1/2 years... tube power amplifiers are on borrowed time.

Thank you for the feedback, @atmasphere,
Would you also be kind enough to provide us the manufacturers' challenges in sourcing tubes and supply-side problems within the tube industry?
Will that supply-chain amplify your "borrowed time" statement?

 

[atmasphere]

Thank you for the feedback, @atmasphere,
Would you also be kind enough to provide us the manufacturers' challenges in sourcing tubes and supply-side problems within the tube industry?
Will that supply-chain amplify your "borrowed time" statement?

The war in Ukraine is a problem for all tube amp manufacturers since Russia is a major source of tubes. Not all the plants there are owned by New Sensor (NYC, who has permission from the State Dept to import from Russia, since the own the Reflector plant there). This has resulted in a massive price increase in all tubes not just those made in Russia. So the supply chain isn't helping.

Even if the supply chain was easy I'd say the same thing because you can get a sound better than tubes can produce without using them.

 

[Anton D]

I am class agnostic.

Soundcraftsman used to have Class H. Crown has, is it Class “I?”

Whatever works, works.

Absolute statements about any format seem a bit odd.

I do think Class D has honestly revolutionized the hobby. I give it a lot of credit!