Audiophile vs Faith Based Audiophiles

[watchnerd]

My own experience surely tempers my enthusiasm for chasing improvements via dubious devices.

What do we call the level that is above competent but below beyond silly?

That's where I want to be.

The Bryston level.

 

[Blumlein 88]

The Bryston level.

Yeah Byrston is good. So is Spectral. I still think both are rather too highly priced.

 

[Sal1950]

Benchmark DACs & amp might get a vote from me.

 

[watchnerd]

Yeah Byrston is good. So is Spectral. I still think both are rather too highly priced.

I agree, a bit overpriced, but I wouldn't call it quite in stupid territory.

Benchmark DACs & amp might get a vote from me.

TBH, Benchmark probably has better retail value, although maybe less so on resale (if that matters).

Although, truly, Crown amps are probably some of the best value for money if one doesn't mind their domestic / logistical / cosmetic issues (i.e. some have fans, some have weird connectors, and none are good looking).

 

[Thomas savage]

I think you get a lifetime guarantee with Byrston?

 

[Sal1950]

Although, truly, Crown amps are probably some of the best value for money

Ewww Crown, everyone knows that pro audio crap doesn't sound any good.

I think you get a lifetime guarantee with Byrston?

20 years + 30 days in the hole,
Let's rock & roll
Chicago Green, talkin' 'bout Red Lebanese
A dirty room and a silver coke spoon
Give me my release, come on
Black Nepalese, it's got you weak in your knees
Seeds and dust that you got bust on
You know it's hard to believe

 

[watchnerd]

Ewww Crown, everyone knows that pro audio crap doesn't sound any good.

I know, right?

Except when they're used to power JBL M2's, at which point reviewers seem to ignore that...

 

[danadam]

What do we call the level that is ... below beyond silly?

Just "silly"? (sorry, couldn't stop myself)

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

TBH, as someone who works on a lot of recording and production stuff, I find the "audiophile" obsession over electronics and cables above the "competent" level to be beyond silly.

The impact of transducers (microphones, cartridges, headphones, speakers), the recording mix, playback EQ, and room acoustics is so many orders of magnitude greater, and often obvious even to the untrained (I have yet to meet someone who couldn't tell the difference, blindfolded, between two different sets of speakers), that wasting mental energy and money, with serious diminishing returns, at the periphery of perception detracts from getting on with one's life and enjoying the music.

And musical enjoyment is the point, right?

Isn't it?

You are right, of course, about the relative impact of different categories of stuff through the recording/distribution chain, then on through our systems to our ears. I do not think audiophile nut cases necessarily disagree with you or would agree with something stupid like "cables are way more important than speakers".

But, cables have gotten a totally disproportionate emphasis, and the issue appears to more that subjectivists just do not like a certain chip knocked off their shoulder or their whole philosophy challenged. It is not about simple listener preferences. They doggedly defend their abilities to discern "substantial" differences, even among cables, using their rather remarkable ears made from noble metals, which can discern things that mere measurement devices cannot.

Actually, the single most important element or component in the chain is the mindset of the listener.

 

[DonH56]

I think you get a lifetime guarantee with Byrston?

Bryston has twenty-year warranty. Lifetime, maybe, depending on your age and lifestyle...

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Bryston has twenty-year warranty. Lifetime, maybe, depending on your age and lifestyle...

Do they offer senior discounts?

Actually, I believe the 20 year warranty is not limited to the purchaser. I have an approximately 20 year old Bryston Powerpac 120 in my system used as a center channel. I got it used about 10 years ago. It still sounds perfectly fine to me. And it has worked flawlessly.

 

[Sal1950]

I think you get a lifetime guarantee with Byrston?

Benchmark

Although, truly, Crown amps are probably some of the best value for money

Not to go too far OT but that brings up the interesting point of reliably and how much of it your dollar may or should purchase.
I give kudos to Bryston for their 20 year warranty but at this pricing level that kind of thing should come from all them priced in that vaulted class. Long warranties are easy for any manufacturer to offer on anything, just include the projected long term costs in the retail. Heck back in the 90s when I bought my VTL amps they offered Lifetime warranties on their gear minus tubes, switches, etc.
Crown and even Emotiva offer 3 years on all their gear.
Benchmark is 1 year, and to the original purchaser only.
Krell amps 5 years
Pass Labs 3 years
I just took a peek at these few and I find the general rule for the expensive products a sad experience. IMHO.

 

[DonH56]

Bryston is expensive but is a bargain in the high-end world these days.

They have tightened up their warranty a bit. From their web page:

Bryston Ltd. Warranty


We urge you to use an authorized Bryston dealer or distributor when purchasing a Bryston product.
Bryston products are sold, supported, and serviced through the worldwide network of dealers and distributors listed in the Dealer section of this website. If the company selling Bryston product is not listed on this website, we encourage you to contact Bryston to confirm whether or not the company selling the product is part of the authorized Bryston network.
When parties outside of the network of authorized Bryston dealers and distributors sells a Bryston product, Bryston will not honour warranties on those products.

Proof of purchase in the form of a copy of the bill of sale from an authorized Bryston Dealer/Distributor must be presented to obtain warranty service.

Warranty Details
Bryston analog audio products and loud speakers are warranted to be free from manufacturing defects for twenty (20) years from the original date of manufacture. The warranty includes parts and labour. Speaker warranty is limited to the first time buyer and is non-transferable.
Bryston Digital products and cables are warranted for five (5) years from the original date of manufacture. The warranty includes parts and labour.

Bryston products having motorized moving parts, excluding motorized volume controls, are warranted for three years from the original date of manufacture. The warranty includes parts and labour.

Bryston will remedy the problem by repair or replacement, as we deem necessary, to restore the product to full performance. Bryston will pay return shipping costs for the full length of the specific product’s warranty.

In the event of a defect or malfunction, contact Bryston repair centers for return authorization. Products must be returned using original packaging material only. Packing material may be purchased from Bryston if necessary. This warranty is considered void if the defect, malfunction or failure of the product or any component part was caused by damage (not resulting from a defect or malfunction) or abuse while in the possession of the customer. Tampering by persons other than factory authorized service personnel or failure to fully comply with Bryston operating instructions voids the warranty. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other rights which may vary from province to province and country to country.

As of 2006-02-22 Bryston will only warranty Bryston products purchased through authorized Bryston dealers. Bryston products with a date code of 0608 or higher (date code format is “yyww”, where “yy” is the two least significant digits of the year and “ww” is the week of the year) must be accompanied by a copy of the bill-of-sale from a Bryston authorized dealer to qualify for warranty service. The warranty is transferable from the original owner to a subsequent owner as long as a copy of the bill-of-sale from the original authorized Bryston dealer accompanies the re-sale. The copy of the bill of sale to any subsequent owner need ONLY include the Name of the Bryston Authorized Dealer and the Model and Serial number of the Bryston product. The warranty will only be honoured in the country of the original purchase unless otherwise pre-authorized by Bryston.

 

[RayDunzl]

My (maybe) useless (used) Equitech has a "forever" warranty on its transformer.

Maybe.

Lifetime Warranty -- Only Equi=Tech offers a lifetime warranty on the most expensive component and heart of the system, the power isolation transformer. We are so confident that our systems will last a lifetime, we offer this transformer replacement warranty for as long as the original chassis remains intact; and it's the only transferable warranty of its kind. If for any reason (other than abuse) the transformer fails, we will replace it at our expense and charge only for nominal shipping and handling cost."

 

[watchnerd]

I do not think audiophile nut cases necessarily disagree with you or would agree with something stupid like "cables are way more important than speakers".

Sadly, I have seen examples of exactly this:

On Head Fi, I have seen people seriously arguing that one should have a $600 DAC / Amp combo in order to "get the most" out of cheap $25 IEMs.

 

[amirm]

My (maybe) useless (used) Equitech has a "forever" warranty on its transformer.

Maybe.

I am confident the shipping cost would discourage anyone from attempting to redeem that warranty!

 

[watchnerd]

Not to go too far OT but that brings up the interesting point of reliably and how much of it your dollar may or should purchase.
I give kudos to Bryston for their 20 year warranty but at this pricing level that kind of thing should come from all them priced in that vaulted class. Long warranties are easy for any manufacturer to offer on anything, just include the projected long term costs in the retail. Heck back in the 90s when I bought my VTL amps they offered Lifetime warranties on their gear minus tubes, switches, etc.
Crown and even Emotiva offer 3 years on all their gear.
Benchmark is 1 year, and to the original purchaser only.
Krell amps 5 years
Pass Labs 3 years
I just took a peek at these few and I find the general rule for the expensive products a sad experience. IMHO.

To their credit, Schiit offers 5 years on their stuff.

 

[RayDunzl]

I am confident the shipping cost would discourage anyone from attempting to redeem that warranty!

Maybe. The MSRP of the current equivalent model is $3800.

 

[RayDunzl]

I'm buying some $13 plastic trash cans for yard and general use becuase the old ones are falling apart:

Rubbermaid Roughneck 10 Year Limited Warranty

What Does This Warranty Not Cover? The warranty applies only to the original purchaser/owner and is
not transferrable. This warranty is void if the item is repaired or modified. All failures or defects must be
reported in a reasonable amount of time. Any use of the Product for purposes other than the storage of
goods will void this limited product warranty.

Commercial use, or use other than for personal or household purposes is not covered by the limited
warranty. In addition, damage caused by: insects, animals or rodents, use of force, incorrect handling,
inappropriate use, abuse, neglect, accidents, impact from foreign objects, vandalism, pollutants, set-up
on an un-level foundation, alteration, painting, fading, assembly not in accordance with the User's
Manual, or damage caused as a result of storage above the capacity limits of the Product, are not
covered by this limited warranty. This limited warranty does not apply to damage resulting from "acts of
nature" such as, but not limited to: wind, hail, storm, tornado, hurricane, heavy snow, ice, blizzard,
flood, fire effects. This warranty is void if structural parts and components not supplied by Rubbermaid
are used. This warranty does not apply to "Normal Weathering". "Normal Weathering" is defined as
exposure to sunlight and extremes of weather and atmosphere which will cause any colored surface to
gradually fade, chalk, or accumulate dirt or stains.

 

[RayDunzl]

Benchmark is 1 year, and to the original purchaser only.

5 year when you send in the registration card (at least on the DACs) which I failed to do.