Audiophile Electronic components

[Purité Audio]

Audiophile electronic components do they exist, if I pay more will my ( same value) capacitor sound different to a bog standard unit ?
I could add do capacitors 'burn in'?
Keith.

 

[Thomas savage]

Audiophile electronic components do they exist, if I pay more will my ( same value) capacitor sound different to a bog standard unit ?
I could add do capacitors 'burn in'?
Keith.

what do you think? do we have any measurements as without this or some valid data this is a waste of time to talk about.

 

[iridium]

Take 2 identical mid-range drivers.
Hook each ONE up with identical properly-sized capacitor to created a first order High Pass filter.
Some may say where is the resistor, but there is no need for attenuation between different efficiency drivers as you would find in a multi-driver setup. You are trying for identical drivers not needing attenuation.
Now compare music & tones with instant switching between the two drivers to confirm identical sound [best done blind].
Once you have identical driver sound, you can start switching capacitors.
Try what I call a CODE capacitor [minimally acceptable standard] in one driver & Mundorf Silver-Oil in another [best done blind].
Try other capacitors.
Have fun, and bring your friends to do the blind switching.

I have hours & hours of blind testing.

iridium

 

[Purité Audio]

The same type and value capacitor would I believe be electrically identical ,within spec, I just wonder whether any loudspeaker/amp manufacturer has performed those unsighted tests, or they specify expensive components simply because they are expected and more expensive units to justify the 'upgraded' version
Keith

 

[Thomas savage]

mikes the expert, best let him educate you in this area.

 

[Purité Audio]

I saw a very knowledgeable chap 'lurking' I was hoping this subject would be his cup of tea, ( not upgraded components)
Serge I know you are out there!
Keith.

 

[Thomas savage]

The same type and value capacitor would I believe be electrically identical ,within spec, I just wonder whether any loudspeaker/amp manufacturer has performed those unsighted tests, or they specify expensive components simply because they are expected and more expensive units to justify the 'upgraded' version
Keith

dic did this on the B1 years ago, but mike says he is wrong. well mike says he is lying in fact.

best we do it ourselves, whoever has the capacity for the testing.

i have a open mind on this personally.

 

[Don Hills]

Typical drivers will have greater driver-to-driver variations in performance than typical capacitors.
Use one driver and just switch the capacitors.

 

[iridium]

Typical drivers will have greater driver-to-driver variations in performance than typical capacitors.
Use one driver and just switch the capacitors.

Good Point.
iridium

 

[Speedskater]

It takes big expensive machines and a quality control department to go with the machines to make good film capacitors. So if anything, a capacitor from a major manufacture will be better than a boutique capacitor. That would be better in a construction sense, more consistent winding tension, no air gaps.

 

[Mivera]

I find this guy to be pretty much bang on with his subjective evaluations. Many speaker designers have been following his database for years. No Bennic's on there simply because they didn't even make the cut for the list.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

 

[Mivera]

It takes big expensive machines and a quality control department to go with the machines to make good film capacitors. So if anything, a capacitor from a major manufacture will be better than a boutique capacitor. That would be better in a construction sense, more consistent winding tension, no air gaps.

I think you're safe by sticking with Mundorf. They have a very wide range at all price points. And SOTA manufacturing facility. Most of the boutique caps just sub out their work to 3rd party's, and could just be the same thing as other vendors offer with different printing on the outer shell.

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/mundorf/1.html

 

[amirm]

That is a very good database of parts. Wish he had measured them all though.

 

[Mivera]

That is a very good database of parts. Wish he had measured them all though.

Well not sure what machines it would take to get useful measurements from them. Most speaker designers concur with his evaluations and are happy with the results. Same with the clients who buy them. My personal evaluations comparing caps subjectively are the same as his, so I don't think we all are having the same flavour of placebo effects based on the colour of the jackets.

 

[DonH56]

Capacitors have been beat to death. IME (and probably that of no other), if we are talking speaker stuff, the inductors and how they are oriented have more effect than the capacitors, assuming decent capacitors to begin with (no non-polar electrolytics, no ceramics with their high voltage coefficients, no dinky little caps with high ESR and/or not rated for the current, etc.)

 

[TBone]

Capacitors have been beat to death. IME (and probably that of no other), if we are talking speaker stuff, the inductors and how they are oriented have more effect than the capacitors, assuming decent capacitors to begin with (no non-polar electrolytics, no ceramics with their high voltage coefficients, no dinky little caps with high ESR and/or not rated for the current, etc.)

My particular speaker was once very popular here, in regard to diy xover modifications. The stock caps were often ridiculed, and changed for something "better". I myself fell into this trap, yet every single example of this particular speaker with diy xover/cap changes never sounded "better" to my ears. I remember visiting API moon ago, being told that the stock mix of caps were of very high quality and more importantly, "voiced" for this particular model.

My current diy version of this xover still includes the stock components/slopes, but removed from out the box, w/much attention towards superior connections. That did the trick for me ...

 

[Mivera]

My particular speaker was once very popular here, in regard to diy xover modifications. The stock caps were often ridiculed, and changed for something "better". I myself fell into this trap, yet every single example of this particular speaker with diy xover/cap changes never sounded "better" to my ears. I remember visiting API moon ago, being told that the stock mix of caps were of very high quality and more importantly, "voiced" for this particular model.

My current diy version of this xover still includes the stock components/slopes, but removed from out the box, w/much attention towards superior connections. That did the trick for me ...

If you read the cap test I posted, it is true that many speakers are voiced with a particular blend of caps to get the sound the original designer was aiming for. So depending on application, you do risk messing up the balance. However some are just chosen for cost and that's it. On my current speaker, I built the prototype using cheap Solen caps and coils with Lynk metal oxide resistors. (which are still better than many use in high end speakers) Once I got it tuned to the right balance and measured results I was aiming for, I swapped out the caps to Mundorf silver/oil supremes and as always it was in another world. Then I ordered some of the new Dueland silver in wax bypass caps, along with the proper value of Dueland C.A.S.T resistor, Mundorf copper foil inductors and swapped them out as well. The difference it made was mind boggling to say the least. This ribbon tweeter I'm using was criticized for being too revealing and hard to work with. But the reason why is because it reveals the shortcomings in the cheap xover parts they were using. They revised it after to make it easier to work with, but the newer version sounds nowhere near as good as how I have this sounding now. I talked to the designer of the tweeter about it and he agrees that it was his best one, but it demands the highest grade of crossover components to make it shine. I must say I concur with his assessment.

 

[TBone]

Hi Mr.Fisher-Price, I mean Bliz, or Mivera ... ... just kiddin', still trying to catch up on what & where ... anyway ... I've read so many things about caps improvements over the years, "mind boggling" prose just don't do it for me anymore. That said, I agree with your situation in regard to better tweeter designs, esp. in using certain caps (once worked a walk away from the old Parts Connection when owned by SF, spent much time there discussing such things). I've a set of small cheaper model B&Ws, 1st order slopes & spiky aluminum tweeters, which a Mundorf tamed nicely, but I found these weird shaped military physically large proper-valued Russian built caps of nondescript on the cheap at a surplus store, and they proved even better within this particular design. Plus, I'm currently in the process of planning a total re-cap for one of my DR3 amps (which I'm not looking forward too). So I kinda get the idea of diy superior cap replacements ... however, I think it's important to trust the ears (and opinions) of the original designers ...

 

[FrantzM]

Blizz

I hope this attempt is not futile. There is not much difference between your post #17 and what some very extreme subjective people post about their cryo'd outlets. We have only your (and their) words to go by. No proofs, no mention of the conditions under which your evaluations were conducted ... Some of us here have been proven of the power of biases. Just saying that the differences were mind boggling cannot be construed as proof , the same way those who love analog find it always superior to digital, or will extol the virtues of the (very expensive) Entreq grounding boxes... If we find ourselves skeptical about their findings , why wouldn't we apply the same treatment to yours?

 

[Mivera]

Hi Mr.Fisher-Price, I mean Bliz, or Mivera ... ... just kiddin', still trying to catch up on what & where ... anyway ... I've read so many things about caps improvements over the years, "mind boggling" prose just don't do it for me anymore. That said, I agree with your situation in regard to better tweeter designs, esp. in using certain caps (once worked a walk away from the old Parts Connection when owned by SF, spent much time there discussing such things). I've a set of small cheaper model B&Ws, 1st order slopes & spiky aluminum tweeters, which a Mundorf tamed nicely, but I found these weird shaped military physically large proper-valued Russian built caps of nondescript on the cheap at a surplus store, and they proved even better within this particular design. Plus, I'm currently in the process of planning a total re-cap for one of my DR3 amps (which I'm not looking forward too). So I kinda get the idea of diy superior cap replacements ... however, I think it's important to trust the ears (and opinions) of the original designers ...

Yes you need to know what you're doing. I don't mod other designer's products, I build my own, so I do trust my own ears and opinions when it comes to my own speakers. I trust my measurement gear as well.