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Audiolab 6000A - PEQ options -miniDSP?

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Smithg97

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Zero difference I'm afraid as the 6000a has no way to manage the crossovers. Do you have any low pass filter engaged on the subs when listening in 2 channel setup?
I've tried no lpf, 80hz & 120hz, 80 is slightly better but not an amazing difference
 

Joffy1780

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I went for the Flex for the exact same reasons. I have no hesitation in recommending it, fantastic piece of kit.
How low can the filter be set? Seems like you need to lower the filter and maybe up the level on the subs? Maybe play around with positioning the fronts away from walls/corners etc.
Ultimately though, if the speakers are struggling as full range you will likely have to introduce DSP to get the sound you want.
 

TimW

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I have a question that could possibly help me better integrate my subs with the 6000A without the need to buy a minidsp. As the subs have a high level connection as well as lfe, could i connect my fronts to them using high level so that the stereo amp manages crossovers properly when listening to music or would it make zero difference vs the way i currently have them connected?
That would make no difference, the stereo speakers would still be playing full range.

You should be able to get great results with the Denon without need for the 6000A. Do you have the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app?

However, if you want to use the 6000A with mains and subs properly, I would not recommend connecting the Wiim straight to a miniDSP. I have owned several miniDSP products and used them as preamps or just processors. They work great for that and my Logitech Harmony has always worked well with them. The Flex would work much better as a preamp than the 2x4HD due to the screen and appearance. If you used the miniDSP connected straight to the Wiim you would have to use it for volume control. If you used the volume control of the 6000A it would only change the volume of the main speakers and not the subs connected to the miniDSP. Therefor the 6000A would only be used as a poweramp which is kind of a waste. Alternatively you could use the pre-out and power-in connections on the 6000A to connect the miniDSP as AudioLab intended:
1675188519218.png

This way you could use the 2x4HD or even cheaper 2x4 with analog connections and still use the full functionality of your 6000A.
 

Joffy1780

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But he would then lose the ability to use the 6000a for home theatre duties.
That would make no difference, the stereo speakers would still be playing full range.

You should be able to get great results with the Denon without need for the 6000A. Do you have the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app?

However, if you want to use the 6000A with mains and subs properly, I would not recommend connecting the Wiim straight to a miniDSP. I have owned several miniDSP products and used them as preamps or just processors. They work great for that and my Logitech Harmony has always worked well with them. The Flex would work much better as a preamp than the 2x4HD due to the screen and appearance. If you used the miniDSP connected straight to the Wiim you would have to use it for volume control. If you used the volume control of the 6000A it would only change the volume of the main speakers and not the subs connected to the miniDSP. Therefor the 6000A would only be used as a poweramp which is kind of a waste. Alternatively you could use the pre-out and power-in connections on the 6000A to connect the miniDSP as AudioLab intended:
View attachment 261356
This way you could use the 2x4HD or even cheaper 2x4 with analog connections and still use the full functionality of your 6000A.
 
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Smithg97

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I went for the Flex for the exact same reasons. I have no hesitation in recommending it, fantastic piece of kit.
How low can the filter be set? Seems like you need to lower the filter and maybe up the level on the subs? Maybe play around with positioning the fronts away from walls/corners etc.
Ultimately though, if the speakers are struggling as full range you will likely have to introduce DSP to get the sound you want.
I can play around with the settings at the weekend as out of country at the moment but as you say the dsp seems like it'd do the trick
 

TimW

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But he would then lose the ability to use the 6000a for home theatre duties.
He could still connect the pre-out of the Denon to one of the analog inputs of the 6000A. He would just have to make sure the 6000A is always at the same volume when used for home theatre.
 
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Smithg97

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But he would then lose the ability to use the 6000a for home theatre duties.
Just wrote what i was about to say ha!

I think it wouldn't be such a waste to use the audiolab as just power amp as I've already paid for the thing so it's a sunk cost at this point and whilst I'm reasonably happy with its performance at low volumes, as soon as i crank it up the mid bass becomes overkill so it's a question of
A) sell it and upgrade to a better integrated amp with EQ and bass management, or
B) sell it and settle for using the denon for music which is a step backwards (i purchased the 6000A after the Denon)
C) buy a minidsp
 

Joffy1780

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That would make no difference, the stereo speakers would still be playing full range.

You should be able to get great results with the Denon without need for the 6000A. Do you have the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app?

However, if you want to use the 6000A with mains and subs properly, I would not recommend connecting the Wiim straight to a miniDSP. I have owned several miniDSP products and used them as preamps or just processors. They work great for that and my Logitech Harmony has always worked well with them. The Flex would work much better as a preamp than the 2x4HD due to the screen and appearance. If you used the miniDSP connected straight to the Wiim you would have to use it for volume control. If you used the volume control of the 6000A it would only change the volume of the main speakers and not the subs connected to the miniDSP. Therefor the 6000A would only be used as a poweramp which is kind of a waste. Alternatively you could use the pre-out and power-in connections on the 6000A to connect the miniDSP as AudioLab intended:
View attachment 261356
This way you could use the 2x4HD or even cheaper 2x4 with analog connections and still use the full functionality of your 6000A.
Are you suggesting connecting the Wiim to the power in on the 6000a?
He could still connect the pre-out of the Denon to one of the analog inputs of the 6000A. He would just have to make sure the 6000A is always at the same volume when used for home theatre.
But that would be the exact same scenario as him connecting the Minidsp in this way, he could use the flex for volume control as long the 6000a was set at a fixed level?
 

Joffy1780

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Just wrote what i was about to say ha!

I think it wouldn't be such a waste to use the audiolab as just power amp as I've already paid for the thing so it's a sunk cost at this point and whilst I'm reasonably happy with its performance at low volumes, as soon as i crank it up the mid bass becomes overkill so it's a question of
A) sell it and upgrade to a better integrated amp with EQ and bass management, or
B) sell it and settle for using the denon for music which is a step backwards (i purchased the 6000A after the Denon)
C) buy a minidsp
Sell the 6000a, get a hypex/purifi power amp with unbalanced and balanced inputs, get a Flex balanced.....sit back and enjoy the music!
IMHO of course :)
 

Joffy1780

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Sell the 6000a, get a hypex/purifi power amp with unbalanced and balanced inputs, get a Flex balanced.....sit back and enjoy the music!
IMHO of course :)
Also, I purchased a Musical Fidelity M3i as I'd been convinced elsewhere that my Denon must not sound very musical as it is an AVR and an integrated 2 channel amp would blow it away. It didn't, I sold that and went down the Flex route.
 

TimW

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Here is my suggestion for preserving the 6000A as an integrated amp:

Wiim optical output > 6000A optical input
Denon front pre-out > 6000A AUX input
6000A pre-out > miniDSP analog input
miniDSP output 1&2 > 6000A Power input
miniDSP output 3&4 > SB-1000 Left inputs
Denon sub pre-outs > SB-1000 LFE inputs

There are other ways to connect these components of course. This one may have lower SINAD but it has the highest functionality. If you wanted the highest SINAD:

Wiim optical output > miniDSP Flex optical input
Denon front pre-out > miniDSP Flex analog input
miniDSP flex output 1&2 > 6000A Power input (or better power amp)
miniDSP output 3&4 > SB-1000 Left inputs
Denon sub pre-outs > SB-1000 LFE inputs

In either situation, you will need to make sure the stereo volume control device is the same whenever the Denon is used. You may also want different miniDSP presets for when you use the setup in stereo vs home theater with the Denon, however as long as you have proper crossovers and tuning with the Denon it may work fine.
 

Joffy1780

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Are you suggesting connecting the Wiim to the power in on the 6000a?

But that would be the exact same scenario as him connecting the Minidsp in this way, he could use the flex for volume control as long the 6000a was set at a fixed level?
@TimW sorry I misunderstood that, you mean connecting the Wiim to the 6000a optical, using it's DAC, then routing the pre-outs to the mini DSP, to go through an additional ADC to apply crossovers and room eq etc, then another DAC conversion to feed it back to the 6000a?
Seems unnecessarily complicated.
 

Joffy1780

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Here is my suggestion for preserving the 6000A as an integrated amp:

Wiim optical output > 6000A optical input
Denon front pre-out > 6000A AUX input
6000A pre-out > miniDSP analog input
miniDSP output 1&2 > 6000A Power input
miniDSP output 3&4 > SB-1000 Left inputs
Denon sub pre-outs > SB-1000 LFE inputs

There are other ways to connect these components of course. This one may have lower SINAD but it has the highest functionality. If you wanted the highest SINAD:

Wiim optical output > miniDSP Flex optical input
Denon front pre-out > miniDSP Flex analog input
miniDSP flex output 1&2 > 6000A Power input (or better power amp)
miniDSP output 3&4 > SB-1000 Left inputs
Denon sub pre-outs > SB-1000 LFE inputs

In either situation, you will need to make sure the stereo volume control device is the same whenever the Denon is used. You may also want different miniDSP presets for when you use the setup in stereo vs home theater with the Denon, however as long as you have proper crossovers and tuning with the Denon it may work fine.
I'm not seeing how it adds any functionality, only loss of SINAD?
 

TimW

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@TimW sorry I misunderstood that, you mean connecting the Wiim to the 6000a optical, using it's DAC, then routing the pre-outs to the mini DSP, to go through an additional ADC to apply crossovers and room eq etc, then another DAC conversion to feed it back to the 6000a?
Seems unnecessarily complicated.
I have used this setup with integrated amps and enjoy the functionality. Personally I can't hear the difference between great SINAD (>110 dB) and 'poor' SINAD (80 dB).
 

Joffy1780

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What functionality is it adding though?
 

TimW

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I'm not seeing how it adds any functionality, only loss of SINAD?
In this case I'm not sure it adds much functionality either, it would just allow the OP to buy a cheaper screenless miniDSP. I agree it would make mores sense for him to use a power amp.
 

TimW

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B) sell it and settle for using the denon for music which is a step backwards (i purchased the 6000A after the Denon)
I fail to see how the 6000A was an upgrade seeing as it only outputs 50W into 8 ohms compared to the Denons 105W.
 

Joffy1780

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I fail to see how the 6000A was an upgrade seeing as it only outputs 50W into 8 ohms compared to the Denons 105W.
Probably similar reasons which prompted me to 'upgrade' to the MF M3i, there is a lot of noise around suggesting any AVR (other than Arcam ) simply cannot be musical.
 
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Smithg97

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One thing to note is that i run Klipsch speakers which are highly efficient and i live in a flat/apartment so power isn't so much a concern. The audiolab is overall better for music, maybe on paper there's some benefits to listening to music through the Denon but live test and the audiolab wins, only major issue is bass management and a bit of EQ which i think a minidsp would solve and some
 

Joffy1780

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One thing to note is that i run Klipsch speakers which are highly efficient and i live in a flat/apartment so power isn't so much a concern. The audiolab is overall better for music, maybe on paper there's some benefits to listening to music through the Denon but live test and the audiolab wins, only major issue is bass management and a bit of EQ which i think a minidsp would solve and some
It certainly would! As I say, I love mine and haven't even really scratched the surface of what it can do. If you love a tinker around, it will keep you occupied forever.
 
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