Audiocontrol Hyperion Processor

[PGAMiami]

Thank you for the insights on the Nuprime products quality and on designing product around the ES9039Q2M. I wasn’t aware of all the multi room benefits you pointed out.

I started looking at AioP because I’m a big fan of the work Mitch Barnett does designing convolution filters with Audiolense. For two channel I’ve been using his filters for several years and they sound amazing running on Roon and playing through Berkeley, Meitner and RME DACs. With AioP and Dolby decoding I could send the decoded multichannel PCM to a Mac running Mitch’s filters and then from the Mac to a pro DAC like the Merging Hapi.

But these are many boxes and it relies on one person, Mitch, to stay up to date if you change anything. Also Mitch charges 1500 for a multichannel convolution filter. Given the time and talent involved, that’s very fair, but it’s not cheap.

I need something everyone in my house can use, and the MIMO technology Dirac uses for bass management is truly amazing. The Merging DAC doesn’t have any easy wireless way to control the volume. Audiolense can generate filters with 60,000 taps that have resolution down to a hz or two even for 192khz music, and it can blend in a time aligned way multiple subs, but there is no absorption taking place, as there is with Dirac and Trinnov. So a single box with HDMI CEC and with a proper implementation of Dirac and great DACs is very appealing.

I need 10 channels (TAD R1s front main running full range to 20hz, KEF Reference 2C center, KEF Meta R3 surround, KEF Meta R8 height, 2 Perlisten R210 front subs, one Rythmic F12SE rear sub, all with Benchmark amps, in mono for front). Even with the Denon 4800h it sounds pretty good. But for stereo the RME DAC with the Audiolense convolution on Roon on the TADs by themselves sounds better.

 

[Highfidelity]

Yes audio over ip does add the option to loop the audio through a VST3 engine running on a PC to introduce higher end room correction etc. But this comes at a cost in not only $ to do it right, but complexity. First of all don’t even think of using Dante DVS. You’ll need a hardware based on-off ramp like the RME Digiface, Marian card, or RME Dante PCI-e card for glitch free, low latency operation. And if you start getting into high tap FIR you’re introducing latency that will take the lipsync off with video. So it will be audio only application when you start running high taps. It can work good if you spend lots of money, optimize the hardware/software. But you need to weigh the costs in both $ and complexity with the real world benefits. Because an APR-16 would make life super simple, and still be the best multichannel experience you’ve ever heard. Especially at the price point.

 

[PGAMiami]

Yes audio over ip does add the option to loop the audio through a VST3 engine running on a PC to introduce higher end room correction etc. But this comes at a cost in not only $ to do it right, but complexity. First of all don’t even think of using Dante DVS. You’ll need a hardware based on-off ramp like the RME Digiface, Marian card, or RME Dante PCI-e card for glitch free, low latency operation. And if you start getting into high tap FIR you’re introducing latency that will take the lipsync off with video. So it will be audio only application when you start running high taps. It can work good if you spend lots of money, optimize the hardware/software. But you need to weigh the costs in both $ and complexity with the real world benefits. Because an APR-16 would make life super simple, and still be the best multichannel experience you’ve ever heard. Especially at the price point.

I agree. If it performs as per the specs, the APR-16 is what I’ve been waiting for. Mitch sent me two sets of filters for stereo. One is low latency. The other has too much latency for video unless you use something like J River to delay the video. Way too complicated for me. That said the high latency filter is shockingly good on TADs that are very low distortion high bandwidth with well behaved dispersion. Even my audiophile tube fans find it hard to fault. It’s spoiled me though and I can’t use the Denon for music. Hoping the APR 16 gets close if not better since it can use the three subs along the TADs. The TADs have an f3 of 17hz in my room. But the room nodes are still there, so Dirac ART should help a lot.

 

[welwynnick]

That said the high latency filter is shockingly good on TADs that are very low distortion high bandwidth with well behaved dispersion. Even my audiophile tube fans find it hard to fault.

Do you have any before & after in-room measurements that you could share? Amplitude vs freq and phase vs freq?

 

[PGAMiami]

 

[welwynnick]

Stunning, thank you!

Does it make much difference whether you use the low or high latency filters? How long are the respective latencies?

 

[PGAMiami]

I have a very large music library on Roon. Any suggestions on how to best play Roon on an APR-16? One thought is an M4 Mac Mini that has HDMI 2.1. Uncertain on jitter performance and multichannel capability. I would expect SRC would make jitter a mute point.

 

[PGAMiami]

Stunning, thank you!

Does it make much difference whether you use the low or high latency filters? How long are the respective latencies?

I haven’t used the low latency filter in a while and I only used it for TV. It sounded fine but it was strictly for toslink out from the TV (feeding into a PC with a miniDSP toslink streamer). Problem with that is mostly no LFE on these downmix and no surround. Denon 4800h with surroundi decoding and hdmi 2.1 audio is much better. But not for music.

I can’t say enough good things about Mitch and his work. I’m just reluctant to build something with so many boxes. Lots can go wrong and my family uses this system.

 

[Littletycoon]

They made it clear that they didn’t even know how many channels their processor could process until it was actually in the hands of customers! They bought some cheap third party Chinese board and popped it in a box and pumped it up before they even knew its capabilities and limitations. When the same company who has proven they have no idea what they’re doing make some pie in the sky promises about some vaporware box that is only a conception in their minds, my expectations are low.

Then there’s the clown they hired to represent the company online. Who has absolutely no idea how the product he represents even works. I could pull some random fentanyl junkie off the street, sit them down for 3 hours teaching them about the product, and they would do a better job representing the company than that guy ever did.

They make stellar products for the price. They have delivered on the h16 while for all the "major" brands AOIP processors are mainly still vaporware against 8-12 times the cost of NuPrime. I think "the clown" you refer to is one of the founders of the original NuPrime who started with power amps many many years ago.

Now go and brush your teeth to clean up your foul mouth.

 

[Highfidelity]

They make stellar products for the price. They have delivered on the h16 while for all the "major" brands AOIP processors are mainly still vaporware against 8-12 times the cost of NuPrime. I think "the clown" you refer to is one of the founders of the original NuPrime who started with power amps many many years ago.

Now go and brush your teeth to clean up your foul mouth.

Perhaps they should’ve considered hiring someone knowledgeable in the product line to be the online representative of the company. Because all of his threads over on audiophilestyle are just a massive liability for the company. Anyone of sound mind would run after reading them. If you disagree then I suppose you’re the target market. They may have hope yet.

 

[Littletycoon]

Perhaps they should’ve considered hiring someone knowledgeable in the product line to be the online representative of the company. Because all of his threads over on audiophilestyle are just a massive liability for the company. Anyone of sound mind would run after reading them. If you disagree then I suppose you’re the target market. They may have hope yet.

You know what the issue is with elitist opinions (not elitist and rich, just elitist), it represents a very small market. A very large majority normally roots for the underdogs. I find the threads at audiophilestyle charming, and the products work, launched close to promised time frames, may need polish, but work, and cheap iso the ridiculous pricing of others. So let's see until the rest reaches the market, maybe q3 2026 for the dpr16, you know how it works with most brands, over promise, under deliver.

 

[welwynnick]

They make stellar products for the price. They have delivered on the h16 while for all the "major" brands AOIP processors are mainly still vaporware against 8-12 times the cost of NuPrime.
I think "the clown" you refer to is one of the founders of the original NuPrime who started with power amps many many years ago.

He is Jason Lim, the man behind Nuforce in 2005, and Nuprime in 2014. He's really quite accomplished.

Our CEO, Jason Lim, has spent 24 years in the US Silicon Valley working as a senior engineer for leading technology companies (Motorola, Sun Microsystems, Oracle, Netscape) that have brought the world innovations in database, microprocessor, and internet technologies. He co-founded NuForce in 2005, a consumer electronics company focusing on creating a premium audio brand with distribution in more than 30 countries (NuForce was sold to Optoma, Inc in 2014). Jason led the sales and marketing for NuForce, achieving numerous awards (CNET World’s 10 Most Beautiful Audio Products, Wired Top Earphones, Product Of The Year Awards from USA and Japan) and product appearance on Yahoo Home Page, USA Today, Men’s Health, Engadget, CNET, The Absolute Sound, and many other consumer magazines and regional newspaper.

Jason joined forces with the Taiwan OEM factory in 2014 to acquire NuForce's premium product assets and launch NuPrime Audio. The following year, NuPrime earned four coveted Product Of The Year awards and gained recognition in two high-end audio magazines. NuPrime has since received more accolades from audiophile magazines and cemented its position as a leading brand in the industry. In the same year, NUOEM was founded to provide services in commercialising electronic products and devising a worldwide sales, marketing and distribution strategy for startups and consumer electronics brands.

Now go and brush your teeth to clean up your foul mouth.

Bravo. I think a little respect is due.

AudioControl have been promising and delaying the launch of the APR / DPR-16 for months, and I'm not troubled in the slightest.
Trinnov have been promising and delaying Dante for the Altitude for years, and I'm not troubled in the slightest.
I started my career in mobile aero satcoms, and I integrated and commissioned the first airline installations ever. And it was really difficult.
In between I worked on research, development and implementation of amplifiers, radar, microwave and electronic warfare systems. Nothing simple.
My last major role was to deliver automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast to a world leading aerospace corporation. Overdue, over-budget, and stuff broke.
When you work at the technological cutting edge, you're doing it for the first time ever. I know what it's like. Everything is ALWAYS much more difficult and takes much longer than you could ever have imagined. Innovation is really tough when you're not walking in somebody else's footsteps.
Nuprime are breaking new ground. They're not having it easy, either.
But I think they're doing the right things.

 

[Highfidelity]

You know what the issue is with elitist opinions (not elitist and rich, just elitist), it represents a very small market. A very large majority normally roots for the underdogs. I find the threads at audiophilestyle charming, and the products work, launched close to promised time frames, may need polish, but work, and cheap iso the ridiculous pricing of others. So let's see until the rest reaches the market, maybe q3 2026 for the dpr16, you know how it works with most brands, over promise, under deliver.

So it’s acceptable to tell everyone it’s a 16 channel processor when it’s actually only 12? And they didn’t realize it until after customers told him? And then there’s the fact that pretty much nothing worked properly. They didn’t even bother to test them before shipping them out to clients? BS claims about 24/96 processing capabilities. Breaking new ground alright. Popping a generic Chinese board into a box without knowing how it works or what its capabilities are and shipping it out to clients to deal with the bugs. Wow some people have some serious tolerance for BS.

 

[Highfidelity]

He is Jason Lim, the man behind Nuforce in 2005, and Nuprime in 2014. He's really quite accomplished.



Bravo. I think a little respect is due.

AudioControl have been promising and delaying the launch of the APR / DPR-16 for months, and I'm not troubled in the slightest.
Trinnov have been promising and delaying Dante for the Altitude for years, and I'm not troubled in the slightest.
I started my career in mobile aero satcoms, and I integrated and commissioned the first airline installations ever. And it was really difficult.
In between I worked on research, development and implementation of amplifiers, radar, microwave and electronic warfare systems. Nothing simple.
My last major role was to deliver automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast to a world leading aerospace corporation. Overdue, over-budget, and stuff broke.
When you work at the technological cutting edge, you're doing it for the first time ever. And everything is ALWAYS much more difficult and takes much longer than you could ever have imagined. Innovation is really tough when you're not walking in somebody else's footsteps.
Nuprime are breaking new ground. They're not having it easy, either.
But I think they're doing the right things.

Audiocontrol is making sure the units work flawlessly before taking money and shipping out to clients. That’s what professional manufacturers do. And delaying the launch because of that is perfectly acceptable.

 

[welwynnick]

So it’s acceptable to tell everyone it’s a 16 channel processor when it’s actually only 12?

They made a mistake. Every one makes mistakes. Me. You. Everyone. What happens next is the real measure. You find out what happened, you accept it, you tell people about it, and then you take action to put things right. They offered everyone their money back. That's integrity.

Audiocontrol is making sure the units work flawlessly before taking money and shipping out to clients.

I hope AudioControl produce some processors that are every bit as good as we hope they will be. But if their first units work flawlessly, I will eat my hat.

 

[Highfidelity]

Online constructive criticism forces companies to do better. Pandering and running cover for blatant failures only suppresses excellence and innovation. My approach is the reason Storm made the EVO, and Trinnov made the CI. I won’t claim direct influence for the AC Hyperion series, but I can assure you the Hyperion lineup wouldn’t exist today if Storm and Trinnov didn’t pave the way. Especially Storm. By adopting the Merging Zman I co-developed with Merging, my 10 year vision of audio over IP in domestic theatre/multiroom systems has finally become mainstream.

If you want to know why the Trinnov CI exists today read this guys post history. He sacrificed his anonymous reputation for the greater good of the end consumer, and Trinnov themselves. Cringe all you want by how harsh he was. But this is how you move the needle.

https://www.avsforum.com/members/activealltheway.9587378/

Beta testing momentos from 2018:

 

[Kal Rubinson]

In order for the CI to have both the Digigram Dante PCI-E card, and also have a hardware based Ravenna card the unit would need to be redesigned from the ground up before the official launch. Because the piece of hardware they have now called the Altitude CI doesn’t have the space for it.

Agreed. After reading my emails, it became clear that I mis-interpreted comments about the Dante implementation to refer to Ravenna implementation. My error.

 

[welwynnick]

Yes but not the most friendly system for simple IR remote. No CEC on the Trinnov or even IR volume control on the Hapi.

You mentioned a few times that you want a domestically useable solution with a remote control.
Using a digital processor plus a convolving PC or Hang Loose Processor plus a multi channel DAC or interface is a potentially great solution.
There are lots of good 16 and 32 channel interfaces out there, but none of them have remote controls that I can find.
What many of them do have is a monitor controller, which is like a remote control, with a big volume knob, but usually a wired USB connection.
I haven't tried this, but I expect you could use a USB wireless connection (not wifi). Here's a few examples:

Apogee Control

Apogee Control | SX Pro

sxpro.co.uk

MRC | Antelope Audio

MRC - Multichannel Remote Controller. MRC is the long-anticipated hardware extension of our acclaimed surround sound and immersive audio monitoring system. The layout of this advanced monitor controller mirrors all major controls of the system for a smooth and intuitive workflow, thanks to fast...

en.antelopeaudio.com

RME ARC USB - Advanced Remote Control

The RME ARC USB is an advanced remote control for RME audio interfaces, designed to give you quick access to all of the most used functions of TotalMix FX.

www.synthax.co.uk

ARC USB - RME Audio Interfaces | Format Converters | Preamps | Network Audio & MADI Solutions

RME Audio Professional Live, Studio, Recording and Broadcast Solutions. Unrivalled Quality, Performance & Stability MADI Interfaces, Converters & Preamps.

rme-audio.de

RedNet R1

The Focusrite RedNet R1 is a desktop remote controller that unleashes the power of Focusrite Red interfaces. Shop direct with Focusrite today.

focusrite.com

The Neumann MT 48 Becomes an Immersive Audio Interface

Neumann releases the Monitor Mission

newsroom.neumann.com

Overview - Audient

audient.com

Trinnov | Remote Controller for Trinnov Monitoring Processors

La Remote is a controller for your Trinnov Processor that gives you full control over your Optimized monitoring system, from stereo to immersive sound systems

www.trinnov.com

MERGING+ANUBIS

Exceptional audio precision and control from initial recording to live performances and mastering your album

www.merging.com

Touch Console: the best way to mix from your tablet or smartphone | News | MOTU.com

motu.com

- Overview

The MOTU Touch Console is software that you run on a phone or tablet, which sounds like a good idea.
The Merging Anubis is an enigma to me. I guess it would do the job, but every time I read their website, I come away convinced that it can make me a cup of tea and complete my tax return for me. Its more than a monitor controller, I think it's an audio interface in itself, and quite expensive, but it gives a Merging system with a HAPI some useful equalisation functions, and supports SoundID if you want. It's worth looking at.
The Okto DAC8 PRO works with a remote control, but they don't have any. I'm not exactly sure what you should do.
If you have two DAC8's I guess you can control both of them simultaneously with a single remote control.

 

[Highfidelity]

Funny you mention the Anubis. Some pics from my beta testing days.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The Okto DAC8 PRO works with a remote control, but they don't have any. I'm not exactly sure what you should do.

Works with Apple RC.