Kal, more specifically regarding Dirac ART vs Audiolense convolution filters. Have you compared them? On my system an RME DAC with Room based Audiolense convolution with just stereo L/R is significantly better than my Denon 4800h with Dirac Live. I’m hoping Dirac ART on a better DAC like the Merging DAC will outperform both and allow multichannel playback.
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Audiocontrol Hyperion Processor
- Thread starter MKR
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I have no experience with Audiolense.
Big fan of Dirac.
Just a reminder - the level of tweakability of Dirac leads to an infinite possible range of different "voicings"...
If you can measure the response and identify what you don't like, you can probably use Dirac to adjust to your liking.
Also worth discussing whether we are talking about just Dirac Live, or Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC), or Dirac Live Active Room Treatment (ART)
Presently just Dirac Live on the Denon 4800H as a prepro and a 5.0.2 speaker layout. The RME with a 60k tap convolution on Roon just sounds much cleaner. Subjectively it isn’t about the voicing. I currently have two front ends (RME and Denon) switched via a BobWire XLR AB switch. To my ears, hands down the RME is much better. But my thought is to get a better processor like the APR16 or DPR16, perhaps with an outboard DAC like the Merging Hapi or Okto Pro8, upgrade to Dirac ART and add a couple smaller Perlisten subs to work concurrently with my TAD R1 that are -3db to 17hz. Any feedback on Dirac ART is very welcome as my confidence with the Merging and Okto products is very high.
Have you compared RME to Denon with the Denon on pure direct (ie acting as just a DAC, rather than DSP)?
I considered an RME / PC based config, but decoding DTS, and Dolby streams was getting too complicated (and expensive) for 9.1 or 9.2 channels - it remains my preferred alternative - but the software / hardware availability and costs ended up being just too much...
I haven’t tried the Denon without DSP. My room really needs correction. My filters were set up by Mitch Barnett. He’s amazing. But it becomes very expensive and complicated to implement in multichannel. So I’m exploring Dirac and top notch processor. Also, I think going from 5.0.2 to 5.2.2 with ART will make the bass much smoother. The TADs go way way deep and load, but the room causes problems
You should try a true like for like comparison without DSP in either system...
if you have two different DSP's comparisons become well nigh impossible.
The RME's are great DAC's (and ADC's) but whether that is actually an audible perceptible difference is quite a different matter.
Doing the comparison might make no difference (the heart wants what the heart wants) - but it would be helpful to you to know whether it is in fact a hardware platform issue (amenable to hardware platform upgrades) or in fact a software platform issue.
It will tell you where you should focus your efforts!
One of the Marantz afficionados on Audioholics went from the 7706 AVP to the new AV20 - according to hardware specs, there should have been nothing in it.... but he noted a substantial audible improvement.
Currently, his conclusion is not that the hardware is an improvement, but that the later AVP uses updated Dolby Atmos decoder... and the latest decoder updates have not been included in firmware updates for older hardware.... only the current generation is getting it.
So the improvements are down to software - and not even the DSP / RoomEQ (!) - but the decoder firmware.
It can be difficult to debug and work through - but we have a complex chain involving Source - Decoder - DSP - DAC - amp - speakers.
Having said that, there is something to be said for opting for premium solutions such as Audiocontrol or StormAudio, where there is a high level of confidence that all the updates will continue to be made available whether at decoder level or DSP/RoomEQ.
Even better is using PC software - but that gets tricky - eg: Netflix on the Smart TV provides a full Atmos feed.... Netflix on the PC nerfs it down to DD+ and 5.1 or 7.1... the Atmos decoder, doesn't do height channels - so you might purchase the Dolby Pro developer/mastering software suite... but Netflix won't feed it the full stream.... catch22... (and the limitation of the RME solution)
I can get a full Atmos feed using VLC player... but not using Netflix
darth
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New website
www.hyperionprofessional.com
DPR-16 | Digital Immersive Processor | Hyperion
Networked Audio and Video, Zero Compromises: Fully digital platform distributing 16 channels over Ethernet, with future-ready connectivity. This AV powerhouse is a fully digital platform that seamlessly integrates sound and video processing
www.hyperionprofessional.com
welwynnick
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They're still claiming -120 dB THDN.
;-)
welwynnick
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+22dBu is about 10V (more audio interface than AVP, which is a good thing IMHO), but of course that applies to the APR-16, and not the DPR.
Being cynical, I wondered about whether those claims were based on chip specs or equipment measurements.
Looking at their older processors, their equipment specs were significantly worse than the chip specs, so they couldn't have been using the latter.
For example, the AudioControl Maestro X7S uses ES9026PRO SABRE DACs, which have a datasheet spec of -110dB THDN depending on where you look.
However, AudioControl only claim -100dB for the processor. Therefore I hope that sets a precedent for the APR-16.
It's an astonishingly high figure for an AVP, though.
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The figure is too high IMHO; most AVPs are noise limited so 129dB SNR is very very high. If they achieved 115dB at 4V it would be a benchmark figure in this market.
One thing I like about these is they seem to be going their own way. 48GB HDMI with full feature set but no OSD and Dante with switch; some trade offs but a nice offering for some users. The layout looks like a nice clean hardpoint layout (Reminds me of Primare) but obviously would need to wait and see for how it performs. (For me personally, No Auro no sale)
One thing I like about these is they seem to be going their own way. 48GB HDMI with full feature set but no OSD and Dante with switch; some trade offs but a nice offering for some users. The layout looks like a nice clean hardpoint layout (Reminds me of Primare) but obviously would need to wait and see for how it performs. (For me personally, No Auro no sale)
welwynnick
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The APR uses Sabre ES9039QTM which I think are -122 THDN and -132 DNR. Hyperion claim -120dB THD+N (good for a stereo DAC).
Therefore they don't seem to be claiming chip specs like some unscrupulous manufacturers.
However it's still an awfully high figure, far higher than anything else with proper HDMI inputs (ie: not ARC).
Therefore they don't seem to be claiming chip specs like some unscrupulous manufacturers.
However it's still an awfully high figure, far higher than anything else with proper HDMI inputs (ie: not ARC).
masterhw
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ARM chip based DSP - great! nice middle ground between full blown desktop PC like Trinmov, and embedded chip like the common AVR. I expect it has some horsepower to run Dirac ART beyond the D&M parameters, but to be seen if that makes a real world difference.
welwynnick
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They also say this:
Which sounds more like the StormAudio approach than the usual AVR & AVP. Promising.
It will depend on a system, but in my system with bed channels 50-150hz range support and 3 subs 20-150hz support it does not really matter if I max out the filters to 94 or do less support with e.g. 64. Pretty much the same thing happens. So the whole filter thing is going to be system dependent.
Storm's implementation, at least IMO, is better not for for number of filters but for ability to put PEQ before ART and ability to appply tone controls after ART.
Storm's implementation, at least IMO, is better not for for number of filters but for ability to put PEQ before ART and ability to appply tone controls after ART.
If they are getting 120dB THD+N at any voltage from the XLRs then they should probably send one in for review. @amirm Aren't you an Audiocontrol dealer?
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