• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Audio Technica & loading

Digby

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Messages
1,632
Likes
1,556
Can someone explain why, until the recent VM series at least, Audio Technica cartridges required very short cables and minimal loading to get a flat FR. Is there a technical reason they couldn't get a flatter FR with a more typical setup (you'd think they'd do that for the sake of sales) or was the rising response a "house sound" that AT had cultivated.

Must say I'm pleased there are now cartridges from AT that don't need the bother to have a flat response.
 

mike70

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 9, 2021
Messages
883
Likes
581
well, with the inductance in the cartridge and the resistance and capacitance in the phono cables / preamp you have ... a low pass filter.
obviously, the frequency in the low pass filter depends on that variables, and AT recommends a low capacitance (under 200pF for cable / preamp).

that doesn't mean a "short cable", that means a capacitance under 200pF, you can have a blue jeans cable with 20pF per foot with 6 feet length to a total 120pF ... or a short cable with more than 120pF.

talking about the flat response ... well, cartridges are transducers, like speakers a flat response isn't as easy and every brand have decisions about it.
buy what you like better, but always respect the specified capacitance or you won't have the cartridge sounding as it was designed.

In my personal opinion, today, nobody is making cartridges with best bang for the buck than AT (until 1k usd at least)
 
Last edited:
OP
D

Digby

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Messages
1,632
Likes
1,556
Perhaps I wasn't clear. Lots of turntables (maybe not so much currently, but in the past) came with cables soldered to the board inside. These cables were long and not likely of low capacitance (e.g. the ones attached to Technics turntables). They can be changed, but at expense.

Why didn't AT design their cheaper cartridges (say under 400 USD) for higher loading? I believe other manufacturers did so. It would make sense given the kind of equipment it would be used with. They seem to have done this with the new VM95 range, I don't think they require such low capacitance cabling, but is this too little, too late to shake the reputation of a 'forward' sound.
 

mike70

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 9, 2021
Messages
883
Likes
581
well, you asked for an explanation ... and we're in ASR .. so, i tought you asked for a real objective reason.

in the subjective field ... use AT if you like it ... or not :)
 

DVDdoug

Major Contributor
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
2,920
Likes
3,831
well, with the inductance in the cartridge and the resistance and capacitance in the phono cables / preamp you have ... a low pass filter.
obviously, the frequency in the low pass filter depends on that variables, and AT recommends a low capacitance (under 200pF for cable / preamp).
I read something, written by someone I trusted... He was testing a cartridge and more capacitance boosted the highs around 20kHz. That's the opposite of what I expected since the capacitance is in parallel with the cartridge output. So, it seems like it's a resonant circuit rather than a low-pass filter.

If you listen to older records "flat" response isn't so important... ;) I assume modern records are better but when I used to play records they varied a LOT! Most records needed a little high-frequency boost (IMO) but that can be done with EQ or regular-old tone controls. And back then, I was foolishly always upgrading (or always wanting to upgrade) my cartridge, even though I knew the records were the problem because a few were good,
 

mike70

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 9, 2021
Messages
883
Likes
581
If you know about it ... why you ask?

I began to understand why I was the only one who said something in almost 2 weeks.

Good luck!
 
OP
D

Digby

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Messages
1,632
Likes
1,556
If you listen to older records "flat" response isn't so important... ;) I assume modern records are better but when I used to play records they varied a LOT! Most records needed a little high-frequency boost (IMO) but that can be done with EQ or regular-old tone controls. And back then, I was foolishly always upgrading (or always wanting to upgrade) my cartridge, even though I knew the records were the problem because a few were good
Perhaps this really depends on the genre of music. I can often see why people who were big rock fans were happy to see the back of records, given the variable, often just bad, quality pressings.

If you know about it ... why you ask?
I began to understand why I was the only one who said something in almost 2 weeks.
I'm not sure you do understand, I think you are missing the nuance in my post. This kind of thing does happen sometimes (no replies), then 5 people post all at once.
 

DSJR

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
3,314
Likes
4,427
Location
Suffolk Coastal, UK
I never thought AT's were *hugely* fussy on loading, the different models either neutral, or toppy, or dull, depending on the model and perceived market. Indeed, the old AT95E was a universal workhorse cartridge that seemed to work in every way mechanical and electrical in almost anything from the massy Lenco 75/78 tonearms right down to SME 'Improved' arms where you could just about fudge a 1.8 to 2g tracking force. The VM95's are better (even the straight VM95E according to the German Lowbeats site).

The VM500 (and 740) series is interesting. Lowbeats (German site so you'll need a translator probably) have measured the popular ones and again, the tonal balance depends on the stylus and mechanical setup used as the body is the same. The 530 has an HF peak which I actually like (it's never sssspiteful), the 520 is a touch more 'restrained,' the 540 is a great overall compromise and the 740 (same stylus and 'innards' but metallic fixing plate) a more refined balance with subtle presence dip (is it all in the mounting plate?)




 
Top Bottom