Audio science reviewers are not audiophiles?

[Anton S]

I lost 15 kHz back around 1978 at a Neil Young concert. Very few adults older than 30 can hear 20kHz, the kind of hearing loss I have at 69 (limited to 13 kHz, or so it appears) is relatively slight. At least I don't have tinnitus.

I feel very fortunate. My loudness sensitivity does begin to fall off more than expected above 13K, as indicated by the inverse of a typical loudness contour, but it doesn't brick wall. It just begins to decline at an ever-accelerating pace compared to normal, and is about 30dB below normal at 20K.

 

[voodooless]

yep you’re one for sure..

One what? Lover of audio science and logical thinking?

Why don’t you come with some actual coherent arguments instead of taking meaningless cheap shots. You’ve been here since 2016. You should know better.

 

[Vacceo]

Funny thing, though. As much as I detest Metal (sorry), that sort of music is a much better test of the performance capabilities of audio gear than the usual "Audiophile" fare.

I think any source can be apropriate for testing as long as you know how it should sound "clean". After all, it´s about having a point of reference.

 

[DSJR]

I lost 15 kHz back around 1978 at a Neil Young concert. Very few adults older than 30 can hear 20kHz, the kind of hearing loss I have at 69 (limited to 13 kHz, or so it appears) is relatively slight. At least I don't have tinnitus.

Aren't you lucky

Twenty years ago, I could hear our little (early 20th Century French mechanical movement) clock gently ticking quite clearly from across the room. Fifteen years ago it was only certain days and then only first thing, which I put down to acute Rhinitis bunging everything up. Then, those super-clear days stopped and bit by bit the blanket started to come down. Enquiries at our local GP surgery let to nothing at first, apart from a sarcastic and almost sexist suggestion that as a fella, I'd be embarrassed wearing hearing aids (I stopped asking after that). And then we changed our TV, all the 'treble' disappeared no matter what I did on the 'soundbase' eq settings, driving herself mad, and then my son was hurt when he talked to me directly and I apparently blanked him without realising it. All but dragged kicking and screaming to the surgery, I had two direct hearing tests as well as a bone-conduction test, confirming pretty drastic mid-kHz hearing loss and 'aids were prescribed, which I wear a lot of the time and especially when listening to the main rig's speakers (their old-fashioned dispersion in this over-damped room makes them dull-as-ditch water otherwise, this not helped by a 3db or so scoop around the crossover region). The discovery of earbuds I can wear have been a revelation and I've had some wonderful private music sessions with the cheap=as=chips Zero and Zero 2 phones. No need or desire for ott planar types at all, most of which bleed externally anyway.

Also, reading some of the in-depth and entrenched positions here (on the vinyl threads especially), I'm please at my retirement stage to now regard myself as 'just' a music lover, who also tinkers with the gear itself. If I lost my hearing altogether, I've no idea at all how I'd cope with life, as music is a given in it.

 

[MattHooper]

Piano, chorus and orchestra are better tests than most "Audiophile" recordings (like small combo Jazz). Small chorus is something where I've got a lot of experience, also have plenty of experience with big choruses (used to be a recording engineer of that kind of music). Can't say there's a difference between small and large choruses as regards difficulty of record/playback. And solo violin is easier to get right than massed strings. Recorded a lot of solo violin (actually, violin + B. C.) and a fair amount of orchestra. But Metal is a good "stress test", like Bruckner is a good "stress test".

One of my personal tests for sound reproduction are string sections. Especially when massed strings are playing the same line together, and especially if it’s something like the violence section or playing a single note together.

When I’m at the symphony, even when all the strings are playing a high single note together, there is no question that I am hearing a group of instruments playing that note together. There is a texture, thickness, and a sense of mass that makes it a mistakable that I’m still listening to a large string section playing.

However, I find when listening to strings on many recordings and sound systems, so much of the sense of mass goes missing, the thickness, the texture, the harmonic complexity, that mass strings can come to sound like a single thin high-pitched note played on a synthesizer or sampler.

I played keyboards for many years and I’m achingly aware of how those early string samples were, and how thin and unconvincing they were. When I close my eyes and listen to a string section playing a single note through a system, I asked myself “ Could this be a sample plate on a keyboard?” All too often my answer is yes.

That’s one reason I get very excited when I hear certain systems which seem to be better at maintaining some of the features that Que my mind to think “ yes those are mass strings playing!”

(and that’s one thing that jumped out at me during my many auditions of the Devore O/96 loud speakers. Maligned as they were on ASR for not measuring “ best practises”, They produced sound with a sense of density and mass and texture that helped many instruments sound more real to me. When I played some tracks with strings that have been problematic on so many speakers, I was like “ holy cow! Real string sections!!!” that’s one reason why I am still fascinated to hear, different loudspeaker designs, even if they don’t measure to ASR standards)

 

[Robin L]

One of my personal tests for sound reproduction are string sections. Especially when massed strings are playing the same line together, and especially if it’s something like the violence section or playing a single note together.

When I’m at the symphony, even when all the strings are playing a high single note together, there is no question that I am hearing a group of instruments playing that note together. There is a texture, thickness, and a sense of mass that makes it a mistakable that I’m still listening to a large string section playing.

However, I find when listening to strings on many recordings and sound systems, so much of the sense of mass goes missing, the thickness, the texture, the harmonic complexity, that mass strings can come to sound like a single thin high-pitched note played on a synthesizer or sampler.

I played keyboards for many years and I’m achingly aware of how those early string samples were, and how thin and unconvincing they were. When I close my eyes and listen to a string section playing a single note through a system, I asked myself “ Could this be a sample plate on a keyboard?” All too often my answer is yes.

That’s one reason I get very excited when I hear certain systems which seem to be better at maintaining some of the features that Que my mind to think “ yes those are mass strings playing!”

(and that’s one thing that jumped out at me during my many auditions of the Devore O/96 loud speakers. Maligned as they were on ASR for not measuring “ best practises”, They produced sound with a sense of density and mass and texture that helped many instruments sound more real to me. When I played some tracks with strings that have been problematic on so many speakers, I was like “ holy cow! Real string sections!!!” that’s one reason why I am still fascinated to hear, different loudspeaker designs, even if they don’t measure to ASR standards)

I suspect in your day job you hear a lot of massed strings and a lot of samples of string sections. I mention Bruckner specifically because his music is full of massed brass (along with dense string writing) that can easily stress playback gear. That can fall apart into raw distortion. And I was married to the director of a small choir that would practice in the living room. Recordings of choirs can homogenize the sound whereas the real thing still has a sense of individual voices.

 

[MattHooper]

I suspect in your day job you hear a lot of massed strings and a lot of samples of string sections. I mention Bruckner specifically because his music is full of massed brass (along with dense string writing) that can easily stress playback gear. That can fall apart into raw distortion. And I was married to the director of a small choir that would practice in the living room. Recordings of choirs can homogenize the sound whereas the real thing still has a sense of individual voices.

Yeah, I certainly agree about the torture test that is massed brass.

I had borrowed a Bryston 4B3 solid state amplifier from my friend a while back and lived with it for a few months switching between it and my tube amps. One place where the higher distortion for my tube amps showed up was in loud massed brass sections. The beefy solid state amp kept its composure during those bombastic orchestral sections, where the brass still sounded very clean, and also the lower brass in the power region were better differentiated from the strings playing in the same register.

So I can totally see someone preferring the solid state driven system.

Still, even though I recognize elements of superiority with the Bryston amp, overall I still preferred the system with the tubes even during those challenging sections. The tube amps liabilities actually seem to add a thickening of the sound which, perceptually to me anyway , seemed to give it a bit more density and urgent power. Sort of like adding a bit of compression.

 

[krabapple]

found this comment on Drop lol

Audiophile 101: What is an Audiophile? | Drop

Image credit @Evshrug [image] In my time browsing various headphone and audio forums, I’ve observed again and again a somewhat amusing contradiction. If you...

drop.com

This comment reminds me of another thing that "drops"

 

[krabapple]

One of the robot tailors in Sleeper.

Well, the voice, yes.

 

[MaxBuck]

I stumbled across a wine on sale at the grocery store. I was a brand from a vineyard we had visited. It was wonderful. I went running back for more, and the whole display was empty. I think it was about $8 a bottle. In general I buy box-o-wine. Costco has its own vineyard in France, and their stuff is very good.

There's cheap wine that's pretty good. There's expensive wine that's pretty bad. But there's no cheap wine, however good, that matches up well against Château Lafite. Or, for that matter, against 2019 Janzen Beckstoffer To Kalon Cabernet Sauvignon.

I've never before paid as much for a bottle of wine as I did for that Janzen, nearly two Benjamins each (×3, for 3 bottles). And it was cheap at that price. Magnificent.

By the way, I also drink $4 vinho Verde, and I love it. And I have really enjoyed Georgian reds I've had in Polish restaurants for $3 a pour. Different purposes.

 

[Keith_W]

There's cheap wine that's pretty good. There's expensive wine that's pretty bad. But there's no cheap wine, however good, that matches up well against Château Lafite. Or, for that matter, against 2019 Janzen Beckstoffer To Kalon Cabernet Sauvignon.

My rule of wine is that all wines have their place. There is no such thing as bad wine. If we exclude the obviously faulty wines (e.g. corked or vinegary), then there is only reasonably priced wine and overpriced wine.

 

[Pancreas]

And how can I become more audiophile?

Genelec 8030c
Motu Ultralite mk5
Sennheiser hd598

 

[Rednaxela]

Why is that so important to you?

 

[Robin L]

And how can I become more audiophile?

Genelec 8030c
Motu Ultralite mk5
Sennheiser hd598

Heavens yes.

 

[Puddingbuks]

I hope you mean that audiophile is improving your sound:

Improve your room acoustics

Add a subwoofer or two for better en deeper bass

Use a dsp / room correction

————

But what is audiophile?

Tubes? Vinyl? Passive speakers? Esoteric devices?

 

[MAB]

It's a very nice system. You speaker's performance depends as much on your room, but those are very nice speakers.

To me, audiophile is not the same as having a good sound system, and you have a good system.

 

[Pancreas]

I want to improve my setup, but I don't know what else to add to it.

I want a subwoofer that I would be able to mute via Motu app, so it can be connected directly to the interface, rather having speakers connected to subwoofer