Audio Science Review VS Sound & Recording : who has the more accurate on-axis measurements?

[HereYaGo]

didnt read thread just wanted to say trash mids are trash

 

[Juhazi]

didnt read thread just wanted to say trash mids are trash

Both are 2-way speakers without midrange drivers. The wiggles you see come from 1) baffle edge diffractions 2) port noise interference 3) crossover phase mismatch 4) woofer's cone resonances

 

[Ilkka Rissanen]

Although...that has me wondering if I'd pay 20% more for an individually equalized response . I imagine that's gonna give you just about the flattest response ever.
I wonder if Genelec measures every single 8351b? Probably not, but if they do, it would be awesome if GLM could use the monitor's serial number and measurements as a part of its equalization algorithm. That would give GLM a boon that other DRCs (Dirac, Audiolense, etc.) could never have. I did see where @Thomas Lund said that GLM 4 takes into account the speaker's response, but I don't know if he was talking about the speaker as a whole, or each individual speaker. I'm assuming the former, but the latter would be awesome, even if they had to charge a little more for it.

Well Neumann measures each individual speaker they sell and saves those measurements so it's certainly possible that Genelec does the same. Maybe @Ilkka Rissanen knows?

Genelec measures AND individually calibrates/equalizes every monitor and subwoofer we manufacture. Yes, it is part of the EOL calibration process to apply individual equalization using built-in filters beyond what you see available in GLM. We don't do pair matching because that would be too easy, instead, for example every 8351B coming off the line is matched to each other and the golden reference unit. There would not be any benefit in applying additional individual equalization in GLM beyond what we already do. We can send you a bill for 20% extra, thank you!

 

[richard12511]

Genelec measures AND individually calibrates/equalizes every monitor and subwoofer we manufacture. Yes, it is part of the EOL calibration process to apply individual equalization using built-in filters beyond what you see available in GLM. We don't do pair matching because that would be too easy, instead, for example every 8351B coming off the line is matched to each other and the golden reference unit. There would not be any benefit in applying additional individual equalization in GLM beyond what we already do. We can send you a bill for 20% extra, thank you!

That's awesome. Thanks for sharing!

 

[amirm]

Also, are you able to share what the calculated distance is that you normally use in the measurements you publish?

It follows the spec requirements of 2 meter and reported at 1 meter. This is set by Klippel software and hence the reason changing it takes a bit of work.

 

[andreasmaaan]

It follows the spec requirements of 2 meter and reported at 1 meter. This is set by Klippel software and hence the reason changing it takes a bit of work.

Thanks Amir, and yeh, no need to actually do it. Just thought it would be an interesting exercise.

 

[dasdoing]

typically, the greatest losses per distance at low frequencies, and the smallest losses at high frequencies

wait...isn't it the other way around?

 

[dominikz]

wait...isn't it the other way around?

You may be thinking about air absorption - which, with increasing distance, will indeed absorb high frequencies more than the lows.
However here it was explained how sound source directivity impacts SPL with distance, which is a separate mechanism and indeed behaves as @andreasmaaan described.

 

[dasdoing]

You may be thinking about air absorption - which, with increasing distance, will indeed absorb high frequencies more than the lows.
However here it was explained how sound source directivity impacts SPL with distance, which is a separate mechanism and indeed behaves as @andreasmaaan described.

got it

 

[whazzup]

Genelec measures AND individually calibrates/equalizes every monitor and subwoofer we manufacture. Yes, it is part of the EOL calibration process to apply individual equalization using built-in filters beyond what you see available in GLM. We don't do pair matching because that would be too easy, instead, for example every 8351B coming off the line is matched to each other and the golden reference unit. There would not be any benefit in applying additional individual equalization in GLM beyond what we already do. We can send you a bill for 20% extra, thank you!

The next time I see another 'they may measure the same, but they won't sound the same' comment, I'm going to ask the guy to go ABX a pair of genelecs.

 

[Lopsided]

Genelec measures AND individually calibrates/equalizes every monitor and subwoofer we manufacture. Yes, it is part of the EOL calibration process to apply individual equalization using built-in filters beyond what you see available in GLM. We don't do pair matching because that would be too easy, instead, for example every 8351B coming off the line is matched to each other and the golden reference unit. There would not be any benefit in applying additional individual equalization in GLM beyond what we already do. We can send you a bill for 20% extra, thank you!

Hi, I recently came across this repair of 8020B on the forum, and that got me a bit anxious because the pair matching seems out of whack after the PCB swap, even after turning the 3 trim pot. Ofc the measurement method and the history of the unit are unknown, but I still want to seize the opportunity to ask some questions: 1. Does the analog 80xx models go through rigorous calibration like the digital 83xx do? 2. Does the calibration for 80xx solely consist of drive/component selection and the turning of 3 pots? 3. Does the 80xx series use ferrofluid, in ferrite and neodymium tweeter models respectively? What about ferrofluid in the Ones?

Thank you in advance, if you are to enlighten me on these questions! I’m a 8030c owner who hasn’t check pair matching myself yet.

 

[YSC]

Hi, I recently came across this repair of 8020B on the forum, and that got me a bit anxious because the pair matching seems out of whack after the PCB swap, even after turning the 3 trim pot. Ofc the measurement method and the history of the unit are unknown, but I still want to seize the opportunity to ask some questions: 1. Does the analog 80xx models go through rigorous calibration like the digital 83xx do? 2. Does the calibration for 80xx solely consist of drive/component selection and the turning of 3 pots? 3. Does the 80xx series use ferrofluid, in ferrite and neodymium tweeter models respectively? What about ferrofluid in the Ones?

Thank you in advance, if you are to enlighten me on these questions! I’m a 8030c owner who hasn’t check pair matching myself yet.

It will need Genelec official support to be possible to answer all these, but I will bet they are calibrating through individual measurement vs a target and that target deviation cannot be over certain percentage. for driver it would be a tolerance envelope, but for the PCB and pots, since those likely have a larger deviation, the pot adjustment sould be calibrated via the output test signal, not the pot position, so it makes sense that say all 3 pots at neutral in PCB A differs quite a lot than PCB B and will need recalibration

 

[Lopsided]

It will need Genelec official support to be possible to answer all these, but I will bet they are calibrating through individual measurement vs a target and that target deviation cannot be over certain percentage. for driver it would be a tolerance envelope, but for the PCB and pots, since those likely have a larger deviation, the pot adjustment sould be calibrated via the output test signal, not the pot position, so it makes sense that say all 3 pots at neutral in PCB A differs quite a lot than PCB B and will need recalibration

Still, the inability to get a acceptably tracking tweeter acoustic response is quite concerning. This looks worse than sample to sample deviation of JBL 30xP series, there are measurements of those on this forum but i forgot where exactly. I remember one had broadband deviation, but remedied by replacing tweeter, not the board.

Edit: this thread

 

[Lopsided]

I worried too much. The two 8030C tracked perfectly.

 

[Curvature]

My best effort at extracting the data for the ADAM T8V in the initial post and lining them up. I don't think this level of deviation is worth thinking about.