• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Audio interface with S/PDIF or AES and volume knob

bachatero

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 25, 2023
Messages
593
Likes
628
Is there any interface with S/PDIF or AES output support that also has a volume knob other than the MOTU UltraLite Mk5? I want one for my KH750 setup which supports digital input and I believe doing everything digitally might reduce latency.
 
I am also in the market but probably looking for a cheap one as I do not need most of the features found in the more expensive ones. There is not a ton of options for good digital output audio interfaces unless you are willing to pay up. Based on my understanding though, most of the ones with volume knobs only allow you to control the volume of the analog outputs, not the digital outputs. The MOTU UltraLite MK5 I believe does not allow you to control the digital output volume with the knob. The two suggested do seem to have that functionality.
 
Perhaps:

Zoom U-44
Black Lion Audio Revolution 2x2
Black Lion Audio Revolution 6x6

I don't know if you can control the digital output with the volume knob though.
 
Perhaps:

Zoom U-44
Black Lion Audio Revolution 2x2
Black Lion Audio Revolution 6x6

I don't know if you can control the digital output with the volume knob though.
Yeah I think those are only for the analog outputs. For an interface to do volume, it would need to do digital processing which a lot of these interfaces simply cannot do to a satisfactory level of precision. I am most likely just going to get a $200 or so interface and use volume controls on the source.
 
There's also the option of getting a USB volume knob to control it in the computer, but that doesn't allow you to monitor inputs live unless you do it in software, which adds tons of latency.
 
What happened to your DIY DSP project? Something like that would be very easy to adapt to do what you want
 
What happened to your DIY DSP project? Something like that would be very easy to adapt to do what you want
I was super busy the last couple months doing optics engineering courses but now the custom RISC-V assembler library should be ready soon, THEN we can start the DSP part. Aside from that, I never considered making an "audio interface" which might in fact be a great opportunity considering how the competition doesn't even come close.
 
RME ADI-2 Pro
Actually, any RME recording interface with a volume encoder and AES/coax digital output. With a toslink to coax adapter, the Babyface Pro FS can also be used. Also the DSP-equipped mastering converters of the ADI-2 series that have digital outputs (the ADI-2 Pro [FS [R]] and the ADI-2/4 Pro SE).

I want one for my KH750 setup which supports digital input and I believe doing everything digitally might reduce latency.
It might. About 0.3 ms, which is orders of magnitude less than the latency of the phase correction FIR filters:

1747514964060.png


Perhaps:

Zoom U-44

This one is discontinued and has no digital volume control.
Black Lion Audio Revolution 2x2
Black Lion Audio Revolution 6x6
These two don't have DSP and so no digital volume control.

I don't know if you can control the digital output with the volume knob though.
On these you can't.
 
Last edited:
This one is discontinued and has no digital volume control.
The Zoom U-44 is indeed discontinued, but still has current drivers, and it's easy to get on the used market (or old stock at some dealers). It's a great little swiss army interface BTW, also class compliant, so no worries about future drivers for basic class-compliant needs. But you are correct there is no digital volume control in the driver.

These two don't have DSP and so no digital volume control.
BLA use a version of the Thesycon driver for the 2x2 and 6x6, which does have a digital volume control: https://www.blacklionaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Black-Lion-Audio-Mixer-Manual.pdf -- the 2x2 might have some additional restrictions in that driver, but the 6x6 looks pretty flexible.
 
BLA use a version of the Thesycon driver for the 2x2 and 6x6
What USB driver has to do with the volume control of the interface itself, on its digital outputs used as the main output bus?
 
What USB driver has to do with the volume control of the interface itself, on its digital outputs used as the main output bus?
I should have been more clear in my statement. BLA use a version of the Thesycon driver, which like with other similar XMOS-based audio interfaces on the market, includes a mixer app that reveals an onboard routing matrix and mini mixer. My understanding is that, at least with the 6x6, this takes place on the device itself wherein the latency of the built-in routing and mixing of i/o, for example, is not impacted by the buffer size of the audio interface driver settings. Now I don't know what the inherent routing latency of the built-in mixer/router is by itself, BUT in the demos of it, it can be seen clearly passing audio from the ports in standalone mode with very low latency essentially in near real-time, without a driver, without any routing performed by a computer. So for example, in standalone mode, the OTG port is automatically routed to the analog outs, etc., but while connected to a computer, these channels can be freely routed and mixed, which is great set of flexible options for live streamers, for example. This kind of functionality is similar to other Thesycon-driven XMOS-based interfaces like those made by Audient, etc. For example, the Audient id44mkii has a standalone mode too, but on that product, it uses stored settings you have to previously set in the driver. Nethertheless, in both those examples, the routing and basic mixing itself is taking place on the device itself, not within the computer in the driver itself. Hope that makes more sense. While they don't have complex DSP functions, they do have limited DSP capabilities suitable for built-in routing matrices and mini mixers.

The 6x6 is obviously the most flexible (comparing the 2x2 and 6x6), as it has more i/o and a standalone mode that automatically re-routes itself to a practical configuration for streamers (which is pretty neat IMO, especially with the OTG port). The 2x2 also uses the same driver and mixing feature, but the design and capabilities of the device are far more simiplistic, and it's possible the latency is higher too. I have not confirmed this. However, as I understand it, even the 2x2 has basic built-in routing that can be configured to route/mix streams, including a loopback feature.

This is different than what the Zoom U-44 offers, which you rightly pointed out, since it has no accessible onboard mini-mixer, and no advanced driver with a routing matrix, etc. However, it should be noted that it does work in a standalone mode too, where it can act as an AD/DA device (even running on battery power!), and you can manually toggle between optical and coaxial S/PDIF. So it's still quite a nice little swiss army knife device IMO in its own way.

And BTW, all the above mentioned devices work in class-compliant mode, so the driver is not necessary to install. However, you do lose access to the built-in routing capability in the case of the BLA stuff.

But you are correct about the volume knobs on the BLA and Zoom devices mentioned being analog only, which is a disappointment for this workflow, as it obviously reduces the potential flexibility of the devices, since you can't attentuate a digital signal without the drivers installed to access the mini-mixer. In the case of the U-44, you'd have to adjust the digital output via some software application in the computer (i.e., DAW, etc.), which would then be hit with the total RTL including device buffer size. This is a big downside of the more simplistic Zoom for this workflow. In the case of the BLA stuff, you can use the router/mini-mixer which I understand to be on the device itself, and not subject to additional latency caused by the round trip of the driver buffer size settings... so while there would still be some latency (converters plus inherent built-in router/mixer), it would be significantly better than the Zoom U-44 in this example, which has to go through something like a DAW, which is subject to buffer size too.

Hope that's more clear, as I was responding to your comment that the BLA stuff "don't have DSP and so no digital volume control" which is technically incorrect, as they do have a digital volume control on their built-in router/mini-mixer. To your larger point, I agree with you that it's not a huge distinction in real life since you can't do anything with the router/mini-mixer without installing the driver package, though (except standlone mode on the 6x6). But technically, it is on the device, not on the computer. Some Thesycon/XMOS audio interfaces have digital controls as opposed to analog controls, and might be more suitable for the OP's use case, but then again I can't think of one off hand that has the i/o he wants... BTW in theory even the Audient devices like the id44mkii have some programmable function buttons on the interface, but Audient doesn't do much special with them... but if Audient cared to do something special with them for standalone mode, for example, they could trigger more advanced configurable states or other routing/mixing features in the Audient onboard mixer/router, again, without a driver. But it too falls short of its potential in that regard.
 
If the playback source is a computer, then a HID volume knob is automatically used by all standard operating systems to control master volume (including standard linux desktop environments). However it requires the sound to be routed through the OS audio mixer (i.e. no wasapi exclusive/asio on windows, no direct hw:xx alsa access in linux). Also most likely on windows and OSX the USB device must not report the output terminal type as SPDIF (see the discussion around https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...sb-to-aes-converter-review.59663/post-2191305 )
 
We badly need such a box. Alas, the reason it doesn't exist is because (as implied above), you need some sort of DSP or processor to change the volume. It would also need a display, and mute button. For bonus, it should have an IR receiver. Seems to me a more useful version would be USB in/AES out although AES to AES would be more general.

I could approach a company to build one. How much are we willing to pay for such a thing?
 
Is there any interface with S/PDIF or AES output support that also has a volume knob other than the MOTU UltraLite Mk5? I want one for my KH750 setup which supports digital input and I believe doing everything digitally might reduce latency.

It’s not clear exactly what you want or the problem you want to solve.

You mention latency, so is it that you want a direct monitoring output that is both digital and has a volume control in the digital domain?

Or do you want a digital output that mirrors the input from the PC to the interface, but also has volume control?

Or something else?
 
I am working in a DIY multichannel usb bridge (CT7601) that has HID buttons for volume and some other functions, like some dongles have, that could be also finished into something like bachatero needs. I don't know if the HID option would be better/same/worse than on board DSP
 
Could something like this work?
How would it work? It has no DSP (and not even an SRC) and the digital output is just a pass-through.
 
Back
Top Bottom