Audio gear enthusiasts remind me of the medical/health industry

[OK1]

Milk is good for you - No - sorry I'm milk intolerant
Beef is good for you - No - sorry it destroys the planet
You need salt - No - must limit salt intake to maximum of XYZ
You need sunlight for vitamin D - No limit sunlight cos it causes skin cancer
This vitamin or supplement is good - No you do not need it, it's a waste of money
This exercise is good for you - no there's a hundred other different ones that may be better
Vegans vs Meat Eaters, and each side is so religious about their opinions
Was a bit of a health aficionado, for several years, tried many things. and different diets, all of which work, for a while, now I only adhere to moderation, no extreme health fads.

Back to the audio gear business, it's a nightmare - so many conflicts - this is warm, this is cool, mids are this and that. How can we have so many different opinions about the same piece of gear.

This is why I love measurements, where there are no additional issues introduced by the measurements, and we have to admit measurements are also done by people who may have a bad day, and something was not quite right with the measurement process. But at least it gets us 80% of the way there to arrive at an evaluation devoid of personal opinion, it is what it is, and these measurements are repeatable. And can be independently verified.

Whatever happened to the other web site which also published measurements, similar to Amir's, but seemed to have gone silent for a few years? At the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established - 2 Corinthians 13:1

I think the subjective reviewers are also influenced by the cost of the gear - DongleMadness is one example.

This reviewer (Youtube video below), was complaining about the ranking on ASR, for his valve(tube) enabled headphone amp. What did he expect?

Long live the measurement brigade. I'd also like to one day become an independent verifier, just have to save up about $30,000 I think, for the AP analyzer and ancillaries. Amir, please correct me if I have underestimated this cost. But then there is the 10+ years of close association with the physics and maths, to understand and interpret the results of the tests accurately, as well as to conduct the most meaningful relevant tests.

 

[Dunring]

This hobby is Star Trek where those on planet Vulcan keep emotions and feelings out of and logic and facts matter. Then there's planet Romulus where emotions are the thing and people feel more than they think.
I just look at things from a value for money perspective. It's all over the map with audio gear.

 

[Sokel]

What would need is a definitive correlation of measurements and perception.
And I don't see that coming any time soon as every person perceives different things.

As the philosophers say,reality is an agreement,a consensus.We all say "cobalt blue",we all see how cobalt blue measures and how different is from the russian blue but no one guarantees how is perceived.And to add,a trained or talented or gifted person can tell,describe and mix the exact color but most of the people can't,or don't care.

It's the undefined nature of each hobby that makes it controversial,interesting,etc.
And at the end is not about how precise is the color mix but the dead simple "what color do you like?"

 

[Jim Taylor]

Instrumental measurements are dispassionate information that can reliably be passed on to other people in other places and at other times. The tests that give us this information are reproducible ... IOW, they can be replicated by other people in other places and at other times and will yield the same results.

That's the world of science.

The world of subjectivism is the world of opinions. As they say, "Opinions vary". Opinions are not dispassionate ... quite the opposite. Opinions are not replicable or reproducible ... quite the opposite. Opinions change with location and time.

So the world of subjectivism has none of the rigorous, dispassionate information of the world of science. It has no data, it has only opinion. The two worlds are totally different.

As in the health industry, beware anyone who is selling you something and says differently.

 

[Ron Texas]

My opinion of the healthcare business is if any other business had such bad customer service they would go broke.

 

[Anton D]

My opinion of the healthcare business is if any other business had such bad customer service they would go broke.

Well, they have the worst customers.



I mean, if someone says they feel terrible, but they measure great, they are obviously wrong!

 

[Timcognito]

I look at it differently: One wants what comes out the speakers to come as close as possible to what went into the microphone and any alterations or distortions come from the artist.

 

[DSJR]

I look at it differently: One wants what comes out the speakers to come as close as possible to what went into the microphone and any alterations or distortions come from the artist.

Most audio subjectivists have no effin' idea what goes into the microphone/mixing desk if the instrument is a DI type and couldn't care less as long as the end result is 'musical' and sets their feet tapping!

 

[Timcognito]

Most audio subjectivists have no effin' idea what goes into the microphone/mixing desk if the instrument is a DI type and couldn't care less as long as the end result is 'musical' and sets their feet tapping!

Your are probably right. The question then becomes are they audiophiles if every playback of the same content is different. I guess ignorance is bliss.

 

[Anton D]

Most audio subjectivists have no effin' idea what goes into the microphone/mixing desk if the instrument is a DI type and couldn't care less as long as the end result is 'musical' and sets their feet tapping!

Stupid subjectivists and tapping feet.

How do we go about making them less happy?

I don’t have time to figure it out myself, I’m very busy telling four-year-olds there’s no Santa Claus.

 

[Doodski]

My opinion of the healthcare business is if any other business had such bad customer service they would go broke.

MY GP made me wait 140 minutes for our appointment the other day.

 

[Anton D]

MY GP made me wait 140 minutes for our appointment the other day.

Wow, I’d refuse to pay!

 

[Timcognito]

What I want out of my speaker system is a wonderful open, full sound that is engaging. If the music doesn't meet the criteria on my known audio system it's time to move on to another recording. If it's a new audio system and doesn't sound as good as what I'm use to with my music then I start tinkering.

Okay so you are about subjectivity. I will say it is 95% about the recording and most of the preferred and recommended gear found on ASR will render a good from bad recording. And the music one likes is a personal thing.

 

[mhardy6647]

I look at it differently: One wants what comes out the speakers to come as close as possible to what went into the microphone and any alterations or distortions come from the artist.

This comment + the earlier Star Trek references -- and my (admittedly rather nonconforming) thought processes -- and my mind fairly leapt to the story of the green Orion slave girl enslaved woman. She was green, you see -- but the folks processing the film didn't know that she was supposed to be green.

In the original 'Star Trek' pilot, it wasn't easy being green

The film lab was not aware some actresses are meant to be green.

www.metv.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/1pav5g

 

[Doodski]

That's a cue the Doctor doesn't want your business. Doctor's that don't care about proper scheduling think they are too important to consider those minor details. Not a trait I want in a primary care doctor.

Yes, if it where another professional I would have walked out but there is a doctor shortage here and some people wait for months and years to get a GP. So I took it and waited.

 

[DSJR]

What I want out of my speaker system is a wonderful open, full sound that is engaging. If the music doesn't meet the criteria on my known audio system it's time to move on to another recording. If it's a new audio system and doesn't sound as good as what I'm use to with my music then I start tinkering.

See, I can't do this now as I perceive the main rig (digital or radio sources) sounds different almost by the day. The Zero 2 earphones can sound spectacular one day and either too thin or too bassy the next. In other words, *trusting my ears only* as subjectivists do is NO LONGER an option for me now.

 

[Timcognito]

You should understand musicians subjectively decide whether their last recording was a good one or not. They are not satisfied with a weak tone, lack of dynamics, or poor room response impacting their instruments sound. Only extreme audiophiles live in a fake world where they believe all music is optimally recorded every time.

Agreed and I'm surprised about how little content/comments are about the recording process and gear there is on ASR as that next to the music performance is the most critical in rendering realism and artist intent.

 

[Timcognito]

See, I can't do this now as I perceive the main rig (digital or radio sources) sounds different almost by the day. The Zero 2 earphones can sound spectacular one day and either too thin or too bassy the next. In other words, *trusting my ears only* as subjectivists do is NO LONGER an option for me now.

A point the whole industry industry including many musicians have been slow to adopt. To paraphrase you; a hit is a hit if it gets your toes tapping.

 

[DSJR]

A point the whole industry industry including many musicians have been slow to adopt. To paraphrase you; a hit is a hit if it gets your toes tapping.

Not sure really... I can't believe how the same rig and sound great one day and not the next - and in this locale it ain't bad mains (that was a good one in the 1980s Naim days), temp and humidity has been fairly constant recently and so on. For me, it's my lugs and overall mood on the day

 

[MaxwellsEq]

It's all about Signs Vs Symptoms. A physician can only make decisions on Signs, i.e. what can be measured (such as antibody tests). A patient may experience a bunch Symptoms. Sometimes there's good correlation (e.g. a deep wound to the foot), but sometimes there isn't (chronic lower back pain without a measurable issue).

Compared to human health, HiFi is orders orders of magnitude simpler and measurable.

Signs and Symptoms

Most physicians, if asked to distinguish between signs and symptoms, would reply in a fashion something like this:A symptom is a manifestation of disease apparent to the patient himself, while a sign is a manifestation of disease that the physician perceives. The sign is objective evidence of...

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