Audio First Fidelia on Erin’s Audio Corner

[Audiofirstdesigns]

Guys! It arrived earlier than I thought !
Now this is going to be a MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

[mrick39]

View attachment 415029

Guys! It arrived earlier than I thought !
Now this is going to be a MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Have fun with your new “toy”! What’s next from Audio First Designs??

 

[Matt_Holland]

View attachment 415029

Guys! It arrived earlier than I thought !
Now this is going to be a MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Cool! Fancy doing a video log of putting it together?

Any idea how many of these are in the UK?

 

[Purité Audio]

Is that what I think it is?
Excellent work, are there any in the U.K. looking at the measurements of the majority of U.K. manufactured loudspeakers I would guess not.
Keith

 

[FrantzM]

<snip> Having a “house” sound is a good way to stand out against the competition. B&W and Klipsch are good examples of this and I wouldn’t deny them their right to commercial success. Me personally? I’d choose an accurate speaker, but that’s just me.

That have worked but.. researches show that most people tend to prefer accuracy.... The number of brands that espouse that, is growing, and not the usual Hi-Fi ones.. among these , Apple, SONOS, etc are blazing a different and successful trail.

Peace

 

[AM88]

Is that what I think it is?
Excellent work, are there any in the U.K. looking at the measurements of the majority of U.K. manufactured loudspeakers I would guess not.
Keith

This is a list from Klippel that shows companies that have purchased something from Klippel, not necessarily the NFS though. https://www.klippel.de/company/references.htmlThere are a few Uk speaker manufacturers there as well as manufacturers from other countries and most of the large driver manufacturers are on there as well. Shame we don’t know who bought what exactly, but interesting nonetheless to see the calibre and range of their clients.

 

[Ktacos]

This is a list from Klippel that shows companies that have purchased something from Klippel, not necessarily the NFS though. https://www.klippel.de/company/references.htmlThere are a few Uk speaker manufacturers there as well as manufacturers from other countries and most of the large driver manufacturers are on there as well. Shame we don’t know who bought what exactly, but interesting nonetheless to see the calibre and range of their clients.

B&W Loudspeakers Ltd., UK

I assume they just never unboxed it based off the junk they put out.

 

[goat76]

This is a list from Klippel that shows companies that have purchased something from Klippel, not necessarily the NFS though. https://www.klippel.de/company/references.htmlThere are a few Uk speaker manufacturers there as well as manufacturers from other countries and most of the large driver manufacturers are on there as well. Shame we don’t know who bought what exactly, but interesting nonetheless to see the calibre and range of their clients.

I think there is very little reason for manufacturers to use a full-blown Klippel NFS during the development of a loudspeaker, it makes more sense to make individual measurements specified to where in the development cycle they are. It's not like they just put together everything randomly and then see how it all measures in the end (even if it may seem to be the case sometimes).

Yes, I’m sure it's possible to instruct the NFS to do selected tasks, but wouldn't that kill the purpose of the full Klippel machine?

 

[Purité Audio]

Depends if the manufacturer markets on myth or measurements, I know which I prefer.
Keith

 

[goat76]

Depends if the manufacturer markets on myth or measurements, I know which I prefer.
Keith

Yes, it’s great to be able to see which loudspeakers have the market-leading high level of distortion so we can avoid buying them.

 

[Purité Audio]

Without measurement there is just anecdote and I for one am sick and tired of stories.
Keith

 

[thewas]

B&W Loudspeakers Ltd., UK

I assume they just never unboxed it based off the junk they put out.

I am sure they just have some driver related measurement modules which they seem to use though as their drivers are not bad distortion-wise.
Here is a quite interesting older white paper from them, unfortunately later it seems they didn't publish any:

https://pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/15_Mfrs_Publications/05_Bowers_Wilkins/B&W_800D_Development.pdf

 

[Purité Audio]

That first model 800 was the last pair of speakers I owned before PA, I most;y remember having to buy a much more powerful amplifier to use with them.
Keith

 

[a4eaudio]

Depends if the manufacturer markets on myth or measurements, I know which I prefer.
Keith

But of course you don't need an expensive Klippel NFS to take measurements.
The extra precision of the Klippel NFS is good for a commercial company to "prove" its measurements are good, but sending the speaker to Amirm and/or Erin can achieve that.

 

[Purité Audio]

Development is both quicker and more accurate, just look at the Ascilab thread.
Keith

 

[Mnyb]

But of course you don't need an expensive Klippel NFS to take measurements.
The extra precision of the Klippel NFS is good for a commercial company to "prove" its measurements are good, but sending the speaker to Amirm and/or Erin can achieve that.

It’s probably much faster than alternatives, a developer who values his time can earn it back in shorter development cycles
You can churn trough prototypes faster and possibly also start a measurement session and go and do other things or let it run in the night and go home while it does it thing.

Make a spinorama manually possible, but it takes time a many measurements ? I think ?

And the resolution in the lower midrange and bass can only be matched by real anechoic chambers . That and the automation probably makes the product .

If you do this for a living your time has value, for example to hire me in my profession cost ca 200$ per hour .

Our friend here are also consulting, presenting a set of measurement fast and keep delivery time and don’t spend to much of a clients time is valuable.

 

[ban25]

But of course you don't need an expensive Klippel NFS to take measurements.
The extra precision of the Klippel NFS is good for a commercial company to "prove" its measurements are good, but sending the speaker to Amirm and/or Erin can achieve that.

Any serious speaker designer (e.g. KEF, B&W) have an anechoic chamber for testing. Klippel's fine if you are testing in your garage like Erin...

 

[a4eaudio]

It’s probably much faster than alternatives, a developer who values his time can earn it back in shorter development cycles

I can take 360 degree horizontal and vertical measurements of a two way in less than an hour.
BUT..I have no issue with a company wanting to buy a Klippel, I was just objecting to the idea that you NEED a Klippel to be in the measurement group rather than the myth group.

Any serious speaker designer (e.g. KEF, B&W) have an anechoic chamber for testing. Klippel's fine if you are testing in your garage like Erin...

I don't have a list of the speaker designers that are "serious" (is there a certification?) or that have anechoic chambers. My guess is that BIG companies do and small ones do not, as they are big and expensive.

But careful nearfield + farfield splicing, ground plane measurements or Klippel NFS can get you 99% (made up number) what you need.
But for those that neither have a Klippel NFS nor an anechoic chamber, they can send them to third parties that do.

 

[Mnyb]

If you already built your chamber on company grounds years ago you use that

Allegedly the klippel system is atleast just as good and possibly better than the smaller chambers ? And then it’s not expensive at all compared to a very big empty building filled with sound deadening contraptions .

So I get the appeal you can do it automated in a spare room or ( or garage or shed if your a one person business )

 

[ban25]

But careful nearfield + farfield splicing, ground plane measurements or Klippel NFS can get you 99% (made up number) what you need.
But for those that neither have a Klippel NFS nor an anechoic chamber, they can send them to third parties that do.

Of course. My main point was to dispel the assumption some may have that a Klippel is the *only* way to measure a speaker anechoically and that any company who has not purchased one does not do measurements (and that maybe no manufacturer in the UK does measurements).

There are in fact videos of anechoic chamber testing at the KEF and B&W factories and KEF even ships their high end speakers with a printed anechoic FR plot from the exact pair of speakers you order. Audiofirstdesigns could probably even speak to this given his experience there.