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Audio First Designs Cadentia 3: comments on new DIY build from kit

My setup is in a first-floor ling room/tv room/audio room hard-by our kitchen in a new home. I can’t do room treatments per se, but there’s a fair amount of window and door drapes, plus a thick wool rug, irregular ceiling, and plush furniture. It is the kind of room a dipole thrives on, but not traditional speakers so much. But REW tuning has worked wonders, and the modes aren’t bad. One side has a 7’ wide opening to the wide-open remainder of the first floor, which helps.
i know you said you can't do room treatments, but i still would recommend to try some Bass traps And/OR some absoption panels (ex. ~60*60*5cm) behind the speakers OR hidden somewhere (for All your speaker tests),

it's just that i thought everything can be done with eq, but there is too much of a noticable difference to the sound arriving to my ears (some is shown in measurements as well) with some absorption panels added, that it made me re-think what is really the sum of sound coming to my ears,

(without absoption - i got very detailed treble + midrange echo, that i only realized was present after bass trap + some panels test)

and i don't even do first reflections, just front wall corner (behind the speakers) and mostly hidden away, not that panels look ugly in any way.

basically it's something i would very much recommend to try at least for everyone. i'm using PET types, but there are other types as well
 
Has anyone built an active version of the Cadentia 3?
That was my initial plan when I got mine but listening to the passive version in a well treated room with Nilai and Bryston amps made me ask "What's the point?" I'll probably still try but after I build some subwoofers to act as stands.
 
That was my initial plan when I got mine but listening to the passive version in a well treated room with Nilai and Bryston amps made me ask "What's the point?" I'll probably still try but after I build some subwoofers to act as stands.
not really sure what the point is of anything, but I would just do it for interest's sake. Never done it before so I'd have a go and see what it sounded like, try an active crossover like a Mini-DSP or similar
 
not really sure what the point is of anything, but I would just do it for interest's sake. Never done it before so I'd have a go and see what it sounded like, try an active crossover like a Mini-DSP or similar
My initial reaction was more akin to "What's the point, an amateur like me will never be able to improve on this" But the urge to see what's over the next hill kicked in soon after. I also wanted to try @Arnwald 's Linfir to get different types of filters. Having played with the trial version of Hang Loose suite, I'll be getting a full version of that too.
 
not really sure what the point is of anything, but I would just do it for interest's sake. Never done it before so I'd have a go and see what it sounded like, try an active crossover like a Mini-DSP or similar

If you just end up tuning the speaker like the passive version, which you should because the performance is incredible, it's basically going to sound the same for the most part. There's pretty much no benefit to filtering this speaker actively.
 
I can't see how removing the passive crossover will not improve some aspect, also since I'll be using subs, I'd like to find out how they behave with a higher roll off and blocked ports. I have plenty of power amps laying around.
 
I can't see how removing the passive crossover will not improve some aspect, also since I'll be using subs, I'd like to find out how they behave with a higher roll off and blocked ports. I have plenty of power amps laying around.

If you don't already know what could improved, you're just making assumptions. I would look at Erins review and go over the data, and figure out what one would wish to improve.

There's no need to gut the passive filtering to apply a high pass filter...

If you don't have the ability to capture spins of the speaker yourself, don't have prior experience with filter design in vituixcad, you'll most likely just end up making things worse. I don't think people understand how performant this speaker is in it's passive iteration.
 
If you don't already know what could improved, you're just making assumptions. I would look at Erins review and go over the data, and figure out what one would wish to improve.

There's no need to gut the passive filtering to apply a high pass filter...

If you don't have the ability to capture spins of the speaker yourself, don't have prior experience with filter design in vituixcad, you'll most likely just end up making things worse. I don't think people understand how performant this speaker is in it's passive iteration.
Agree, the spin of this speaker looks like they already used FIR on it somehow. Crazy for a passive. Improving it even with unlimited taps is not something your average bumpkin can pull off... I mean what shortcoming are we even talking about fixing?
 
Agree, the spin of this speaker looks like they already used FIR on it somehow. Crazy for a passive. Improving it even with unlimited taps is not something your average bumpkin can pull off... I mean what shortcoming are we even talking about fixing?
The spin of the yet to be released Ascilab tower is also a thing of wonder, the spins of Ascend speakers are somewhat even more impressive considering the lack of waveguide.
 
The spin of the yet to be released Ascilab tower is also a thing of wonder, the spins of Ascend speakers are somewhat even more impressive considering the lack of waveguide.
Agree... some of the strongest crossover games in the business here.
 
If you don't already know what could improved, you're just making assumptions. I would look at Erins review and go over the data, and figure out what one would wish to improve.

There's no need to gut the passive filtering to apply a high pass filter...

If you don't have the ability to capture spins of the speaker yourself, don't have prior experience with filter design in vituixcad, you'll most likely just end up making things worse. I don't think people understand how performant this speaker is in it's passive iteration.
I'm not a pro but after chatting to Harry a few times, he said "Go for it!" So why not? It's all reversible.
 
Following up on the comparison of the Heissmann DXT-Mon 182 and AudioFirst Cadentia 3:

My TV/audio room is 20x16 with a downward-sloping, three-beam ceiling from 11' to 8' and a very large opening into another area of the home. It's a pretty good listening room, with reinforcing modes not as bad as other houses I've lived in.

Both speakers have been adjusted with AutoEQ in REW through a MiniDSP Flex 8's interface, plus a bit of touching up to the Heissmann's broad dip centered at about 3000hz.

The Cadentia 3 have an incredibly smooth response and extraordinary clarity, more so than any speakers I've ever owned in 47 years of audio hobbying. Detail out the wazoo, quite striking and unprecedented for me. And they play loud without even a suggestion of strain. But I'm not getting the depth of imaging I anticipated. Not sure if that's because they don't mash up frequencies owing to IM distortion, or something else. Ideas welcome.

The Heissmann are definitely not in the same league in smoothness of response. And I haven't, so far, been able to get the same flatness of response with EQ. The clarity is also excellent but cannot compete with that amazeballs midrange of the Cadentia. That said, the tweeter on the Heissmann is extremely fine. The imaging is superior to the Cadentia in my room, and is indeed beguiling for a box-type speaker. I haven't pushed them to compression levels and don't plan to; I wouldn't expect a speaker of that size to handle big peaks like the Cadentia do.

Next, I plan to boost the Cadentia broadly around, say, 2500hz a little bit in the same way I did the Heissmann and also play around with its room interaction by changing toe-in to see if it gives more spacious imaging. But I doubt it. I think the designer was aiming to bridge the divide between Gen/Neu narrow directivity with less room interaction and, say, Philharmonic Audio fairly broad dispersion resulting in more room interaction. A comparo of the Cadentia 3 and the KEF Blade 2 shows very similar directivity, particularly in the range I can hear at age 61 (above 12khz, zilch).

My Linkwitz LX521.4, of course, interact A LOT with the room because they're dipoles.

I used to think I would buy Gen 8351 or Neu KH 150, but the narrow directivity worried me. I use my stereo pair for double-duty TV (with family members) and music, so studio monitors aren't quite what I need. But I do LOVE the custom ruby-red offered in the 8351B. SOOOO tempted.

Not sure which speakers to keep. Both are, by far, the best conventional speakers I've owned -- and I've owned many, including Dutch 8C, though that's a closer call, for sure -- and I can happily live with either. I still have the Linkwitz dipoles, thinking I might refurbish them with custom woodwork and run them 1/2 of the year and the conventional speakers the other half, just for the hell of it.

For the money, I strongly recommend the DIY Heissmann DXT-Mon 182 if you have basic carpentry tools and skills. Just beautiful sounding, and very high SAF (spouse acceptance factor) because they are really cute and smallish.

For double that money and even without any carpentry skills to speak of, the Cadentia 3 are competitive (on paper) with very pricey studio monitors but more suitable for a mixed-use environment. Not small; a significant presence in a room; not even very pretty, really. My spouse is sort of okay with them, glad that at least there's 15" of air under them when up on stands so that you see the floor.

For fully-built, non-DIY speakers and a lot of money, I would be looking for the KEF Ref 1 Meta as the alternative, or else the Philharmonic Audio if you want lots of room interaction. I think that says a lot about AudioFirst as a new company -- engineering prowess, entrepreneurial risk in the same vein as Ray Cooke at KEF if you look back in time (he gave me a tour of KEF back in 1986, no kidding), and just plain nice to deal with.
Cadentias radiate super wide. So you get big soundstage and alot of reverberated sound but lose the depth and imaging you cant get both, depends what you prefer.
 
I'm not a pro but after chatting to Harry a few times, he said "Go for it!" So why not? It's all reversible.

Well I am certainly shocked that a speaker company would be in support of selling you a speaker :p

This really needs to come back to the question of "What would you want to improve and how would active filtering play a part in that improvement". Until you can answer that, you're most certainly guaranteed to make the speaker sound worse than the stock passive xover. That's the "why not" part.

You do you but it makes a lot more sense to use some cheaper multiway that isn't damn near perfect, and experiment with that. A cheap two way will let you experience just about everything filtering method there is.

This is similar to when Danny Richie saw an Ascend speaker with amazing metrics and said "I can do better". He proceded to create one of the most critisized and awful speaker mods that the hobby has ever seen.
 
Well I am certainly shocked that a speaker company would be in support of selling you a speaker :p

This really needs to come back to the question of "What would you want to improve and how would active filtering play a part in that improvement". Until you can answer that, you're most certainly guaranteed to make the speaker sound worse than the stock passive xover. That's the "why not" part.

You do you but it makes a lot more sense to use some cheaper multiway that isn't damn near perfect, and experiment with that. A cheap two way will let you experience just about everything filtering method there is.

This is similar to when Danny Richie saw an Ascend speaker with amazing metrics and said "I can do better". He proceded to create one of the most critisized and awful speaker mods that the hobby has ever seen.
Wow, you're in a good mood today aren't you!
BTW, I already had the speakers before we chatted and anyone who has spoken or had dealings with Harry would know he is an honourable chap who would bend over backwards to help his customers.
 
Wow, you're in a good mood today aren't you!
BTW, I already had the speakers before we chatted and anyone who has spoken or had dealings with Harry would know he is an honourable chap who would bend over backwards to help his customers.

You aren't even reading what I'm saying. You still can't even answer the question that you need to be able to answer to even understand what you're doing. Good luck.
 
I'm not a pro but after chatting to Harry a few times, he said "Go for it!" So why not? It's all reversible.
Did Harry say that he would give you the crossover slopes and frequencies?
 
Not hard with filter tasks, but one still needs to match driver levels very closely to OG xover or phase will be off at xover point.
 
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