Audio First Designs Cadentia 3: comments on new DIY build from kit

[suttondesign]

I will provide a few subjective comments on this speaker. I have moved from Linkwitz 521.4 open-baffles, mixed in there now and again the Dutch & Dutch 8C, then recently to Heissmann DXT-Mon-182 that I built from scratch including passive crossovers, and now to the Cadentia 3 from the DIY kit with CNC parts and completed crossover.

The Linkwitz have a beguilingly open, resonant sound field and an unmatched naturalness of bass. But they are fussy and complex. And they just don't work for me as mains for 2-channel around a TV (which is my compromise main setup in a home we built as our "forever home" in 2023) because dialogue has a shimmery halo that makes it hard to understand as a phantom center. Which is why I did a test-run with the Heissmanns.

The Heissmanns are incredible for their size. Zero complaints. But they are 2-way. Had Audio First not come out with the Cadentia 3, I probably would have settled on the Heissmann, particularly because they're so cute. They also have audibly low distortion and smooth response. The Linkwitz doesn't have the latter so much, and the Dutch 8C, to my ears, audibly distorted in deep bass, or at least did not sound natural. Their superlative is buttery-smooth response, which is nothing to sneeze at.

The Cadentia intrigued me for their promise of greater output and even better midrange and vocals with a first-rate, dedicated midrange. And the DIY price was reasonable for what the design promised. And it delivers in spades. It is by far the cleanest, clearest speaker I have ever owned from bottom to top (though I cross over to subs at 50hz using LR 4th-order). My suspicion is that the designer's focus on low IM distortion translates to an absence of unwanted tones around the ones in the original signal (I'm not an engineer), resulting in what I perceive as clarity. The mids and trebles are the best I've ever had by a clear margin.

The other thing I would say is that, like Amir's big Revels, the Cadentia 3 play very loud without audible stress. I picked up a Hypex 500x stereo amp specifically for these speakers, so I've got ample power on tap. The subs behind them each have a MiniDSP plate amp in mono bridged mode, so lots of power there too.

I'm still evaluating imaging characteristics. The Heissmanns were immediately impressive in that regard, and IMO the Linkwitz are peerless. My initial impression of the Cadentia is of a somewhat drier presentation -- related to how clean they sound? -- but I also have them toed inward. Each is 5' from side walls and, on first positioning, 30" out from the wall behind. I need to listen to more classical recordings before saying much more. I suspect the Cadentia have some similarities to quality studio monitors but not quite so narrow overall in dispersion.

So in a world where you probably can't have everything, so far the Cadentia 3 offer a LOT for the money in kit form as a box-type speaker. They're by no means small, but when put on stands 15" off the floor, they're not monolithic like big Revels or KEFs. If you rock out, look no further. If a reverberant, deep sound field like a dipole is your goal, well, get a dipole. I find the Cadentia superior to Dutch 8C, which I kept thinking would be more satisfying than they actually were.

 

[suttondesign]

 

[Milt]

Interesting stands. Did you build them?
Sorry for being nosey but what is your upstream gear?
Just curious since your profile is offline.
TIA

 

[suttondesign]

Interesting stands. Did you build them?
Sorry for being nosey but what is your upstream gear?
Just curious since your profile is offline.
TIA

Yes, I made the stands. They are a variation of a design I found online and liked a lot. I made them from 8/4 (2" thick) western yellow maple stained with black tea.

Upstream is a Mac Mini with Roon, feeding through USB into an RME ADI-2 Pro FS, then digital out to MiniDSP Flex 8 for DSP processing, finally to Hypex ncx500 stereo amp. The two big subs are fed with MiniDSP plate amps.

patrick

 

[suttondesign]

Following up on the comparison of the Heissmann DXT-Mon 182 and AudioFirst Cadentia 3:

My TV/audio room is 20x16 with a downward-sloping, three-beam ceiling from 11' to 8' and a very large opening into another area of the home. It's a pretty good listening room, with reinforcing modes not as bad as other houses I've lived in.

Both speakers have been adjusted with AutoEQ in REW through a MiniDSP Flex 8's interface, plus a bit of touching up to the Heissmann's broad dip centered at about 3000hz.

The Cadentia 3 have an incredibly smooth response and extraordinary clarity, more so than any speakers I've ever owned in 47 years of audio hobbying. Detail out the wazoo, quite striking and unprecedented for me. And they play loud without even a suggestion of strain. But I'm not getting the depth of imaging I anticipated. Not sure if that's because they don't mash up frequencies owing to IM distortion, or something else. Ideas welcome.

The Heissmann are definitely not in the same league in smoothness of response. And I haven't, so far, been able to get the same flatness of response with EQ. The clarity is also excellent but cannot compete with that amazeballs midrange of the Cadentia. That said, the tweeter on the Heissmann is extremely fine. The imaging is superior to the Cadentia in my room, and is indeed beguiling for a box-type speaker. I haven't pushed them to compression levels and don't plan to; I wouldn't expect a speaker of that size to handle big peaks like the Cadentia do.

Next, I plan to boost the Cadentia broadly around, say, 2500hz a little bit in the same way I did the Heissmann and also play around with its room interaction by changing toe-in to see if it gives more spacious imaging. But I doubt it. I think the designer was aiming to bridge the divide between Gen/Neu narrow directivity with less room interaction and, say, Philharmonic Audio fairly broad dispersion resulting in more room interaction. A comparo of the Cadentia 3 and the KEF Blade 2 shows very similar directivity, particularly in the range I can hear at age 61 (above 12khz, zilch).

My Linkwitz LX521.4, of course, interact A LOT with the room because they're dipoles.

I used to think I would buy Gen 8351 or Neu KH 150, but the narrow directivity worried me. I use my stereo pair for double-duty TV (with family members) and music, so studio monitors aren't quite what I need. But I do LOVE the custom ruby-red offered in the 8351B. SOOOO tempted.

Not sure which speakers to keep. Both are, by far, the best conventional speakers I've owned -- and I've owned many, including Dutch 8C, though that's a closer call, for sure -- and I can happily live with either. I still have the Linkwitz dipoles, thinking I might refurbish them with custom woodwork and run them 1/2 of the year and the conventional speakers the other half, just for the hell of it.

For the money, I strongly recommend the DIY Heissmann DXT-Mon 182 if you have basic carpentry tools and skills. Just beautiful sounding, and very high SAF (spouse acceptance factor) because they are really cute and smallish.

For double that money and even without any carpentry skills to speak of, the Cadentia 3 are competitive (on paper) with very pricey studio monitors but more suitable for a mixed-use environment. Not small; a significant presence in a room; not even very pretty, really. My spouse is sort of okay with them, glad that at least there's 15" of air under them when up on stands so that you see the floor.

For fully-built, non-DIY speakers and a lot of money, I would be looking for the KEF Ref 1 Meta as the alternative, or else the Philharmonic Audio if you want lots of room interaction. I think that says a lot about AudioFirst as a new company -- engineering prowess, entrepreneurial risk in the same vein as Ray Cooke at KEF if you look back in time (he gave me a tour of KEF back in 1986, no kidding), and just plain nice to deal with.

 

[Milt]

Appreciate your insightful feedback.
Unfortunately I won't be able to setup my Cadentias until later this month.
Your book cover subwoofer camo is really cool

 

[suttondesign]

The clarity and authority of the Cadentia 3 are winning out. Perhaps not surprising at the price point and engineering investment -- no slap at Alexander Heissmann here -- but the fact that there are two speakers with the same design philosophy, but scaled and priced this way, is pretty great.

 

[suttondesign]

Worked on REW further today, integrating the two subs better. This represents the filters generated with REW's autoEQ plus two modest input filters I added to smooth things from 1khz-5khz in my typical listening area.

Just as a point of interest, I had to invert the phase of one sub to get rid of a big cancellation.

 

[suttondesign]

Appreciate your insightful feedback.
Unfortunately I won't be able to setup my Cadentias until later this month.
Your book cover subwoofer camo is really cool

if dialed in with eq to deal with room issues, I think you will be very happy with your choice. as i get accustomed to a clean, balanced presentation, and very clear movie dialogue, i am content.

 

[suttondesign]

Concerning the Cadentia 3, having never previously owned a main stereo pair capable of very high output and balanced FR, with negligible distortion and good dispersion characteristics that tame room interaction, it's a real pleasure. I can understand now why people rave about the JBL M2 or the big Revels. Two thumbs up for Cadentia 3 which, at the DIY price, is a bargain.

 

[Marc v E]

View attachment 543740

I'm curious if you tried the speakers closer to the wall ?

(That and nothing behind or between the speakers usually works for me regarding better imaging.)

The frequency curve looks very good. I would change it a touch by giving more downward slope in the highs, but that could very well be just a personal preference.

 

[suttondesign]

I'm curious if you tried the speakers closer to the wall ?

(That and nothing behind or between the speakers usually works for me regarding better imaging.)

The frequency curve looks very good. I would change it a touch by giving more downward slope in the highs, but that could very well be just a personal preference.

my old ears are good with the flatter response. but no, as for wall distance, i didnt try it. on one side, the shelves are already 13” deep.

 

[Marc v E]

my old ears are good with the flatter response. but no, as for wall distance, i didnt try it. on one side, the shelves are already 13” deep.

If the location of the speakers is a given, I would try aiming the speakers directly at you at the listening position. Then a small step wider beside your ears until you find the optimal between direct and reflected sound (you may have done that already).

Absorbing the sound at the sides might be an option given the space I see to the sides. (I personally restrict myself to curtains, window drapes and bookcases. No professional damping in my living room but these items.)

One other thing that helped me massively with imaging is getting the listening position free from the wall. On that same note it might be a option to scatter/absorb the sound behind you. Book cases are apparently very good at that. I experienced a noticable clearer sound/image when I had that. (Now a wall behind me which makes it worse.)

 

[Milt]

Concerning the Cadentia 3, having never previously owned a main stereo pair capable of very high output and balanced FR, with negligible distortion and good dispersion characteristics that tame room interaction, it's a real pleasure. I can understand now why people rave about the JBL M2 or the big Revels. Two thumbs up for Cadentia 3 which, at the DIY price, is a bargain.

Funny, I'm replacing Revel Studio2s with Cadentia3s & subs.
The 3 Revels are moving to my theater\music room.
IMO, the Ultima2s are resolving, clear & very crankable w\o fatigue

 

[101geo]

If the location of the speakers is a given, I would try aiming the speakers directly at you at the listening position. Then a small step wider beside your ears until you find the optimal between direct and reflected sound (you may have done that already).

Absorbing the sound at the sides might be an option given the space I see to the sides. (I personally restrict myself to curtains, window drapes and bookcases. No professional damping in my living room but these items.)

One other thing that helped me massively with imaging is getting the listening position free from the wall. On that same note it might be a option to scatter/absorb the sound behind you. Book cases are apparently very good at that. I experienced a noticable clearer sound/image when I had that. (Now a wall behind me which makes it worse.)

Just had a recent demo in a treated room with the LP near the back wall and just hanging some loose fabric an inch or so from the wall had very discernible and measurable results.

 

[suttondesign]

My setup is in a first-floor ling room/tv room/audio room hard-by our kitchen in a new home. I can’t do room treatments per se, but there’s a fair amount of window and door drapes, plus a thick wool rug, irregular ceiling, and plush furniture. It is the kind of room a dipole thrives on, but not traditional speakers so much. But REW tuning has worked wonders, and the modes aren’t bad. One side has a 7’ wide opening to the wide-open remainder of the first floor, which helps.

 

[djn04]

@suttondesign Any chance you could share the templates or dimensions for your stands? I watched the YouTube video and this looks like something I could tackle. Thanks!

I'm still on the fence about ordering a pair, they would replace a 15 year old pair of Magico S1s, but leaning more towards ordering the kit the more I read about them.

 

[suttondesign]

@suttondesign Any chance you could share the templates or dimensions for your stands? I watched the YouTube video and this looks like something I could tackle. Thanks!

I'm still on the fence about ordering a pair, they would replace a 15 year old pair of Magico S1s, but leaning more towards ordering the kit the more I read about them.

Sure! I attach that design.

 

[suttondesign]

@suttondesign Any chance you could share the templates or dimensions for your stands? I watched the YouTube video and this looks like something I could tackle. Thanks!

I'm still on the fence about ordering a pair, they would replace a 15 year old pair of Magico S1s, but leaning more towards ordering the kit the more I read about them.

Looks like the Magico would not be as smooth out-of-the-box but would take to EQ. These newer designs and drivers have lower distortion, which is what I find most appealing, plus the benefits of a devoted midrange. Since you have great speakers, waiting a while for the kit doesn't seem like a hardship. But new tariffs coming down the pike might change the calculus.

 

[Milt]

Sutton, your living room config is very similiar to mine except my ceiling(9ft) is flat with a fireplace on the west(short side).

No one asked but Cadentias will reset your listening experience.
From reading Harry's posts, selling assembled speakers is far more profitable & easier to process.
FWIW, If you're going DIY, to it now.