Audio extractor recommendations for SACD (DSD) via HDMI to RME DAC?

[Strumbringer]

Hello All,

I've been using the search function and reading as much as I can find on the topic and was hoping to ask for recommendations. I have a Sony Blu-Ray player BDP-S6500, which the web tells me, will play SACD and output DSD via its HDMI out (it only has HDMI and coax outputs, nothing else).

My hope is to have it output DSD to my RME ADI-2 DAC. I'm currently using a Cable Matters model 103090 audio extractor and it's not doing the job. I've learned that using optical will down-sample and I'm getting 24/44.1. I've also tried my friends Oppo 103 and get the same results using HDMI2. If I use the Oppo's analog outs to my headphone amp, I'm good.

Any recommendations for an audio extractor that can work with the Sony BDP-S6500 into my RME ADI2 DAC?

 

[mocenigo]

I used some hacked SACD player (for instance some old first series PS3 with the firmware not flashed to the latest versions) and quite a bit of fiddling. I do not know whether there are more practical solutions.

 

[linger63]

HDMI to IIS/Coax DoP Converter

This is a review and detailed measurements of an HDMI to Coax/Toslink and IIs interface converter with support for DoP format. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member and costs US $103. As you see, there is no brand name on it. Here is a link to the ebay listing...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Strumbringer]

HDMI to IIS/Coax DoP Converter

This is a review and detailed measurements of an HDMI to Coax/Toslink and IIs interface converter with support for DoP format. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member and costs US $103. As you see, there is no brand name on it. Here is a link to the ebay listing...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thanks, but that review was inconclusive. DSD over HDMI (what I need) was not tested.

 

[dadregga]

Hello All,

I've been using the search function and reading as much as I can find on the topic and was hoping to ask for recommendations. I have a Sony Blu-Ray player BDP-S6500, which the web tells me, will play SACD and output DSD via its HDMI out (it only has HDMI and coax outputs, nothing else).

My hope is to have it output DSD to my RME ADI-2 DAC. I'm currently using a Cable Matters model 103090 audio extractor and it's not doing the job. I've learned that using optical will down-sample and I'm getting 24/44.1. I've also tried my friends Oppo 103 and get the same results using HDMI2. If I use the Oppo's analog outs to my headphone amp, I'm good.

Any recommendations for an audio extractor that can work with the Sony BDP-S6500 into my RME ADI2 DAC?

DSD over HDMI is effectively a violation of the HDMI spec and you're going to struggle to find something that works well.

The BDP-S5600 can easily rip SACD DSD to raw files, and you can play those over USB direct to your DAC - that is going to be identical in terms of quality and lack of bitstream conversion, and be much easier to manage.

 

[Strumbringer]

DSD over HDMI is effectively a violation of the HDMI spec and you're going to struggle to find something that works well.

The BDP-S5600 can easily rip SACD DSD to raw files, and you can play those over USB direct to your DAC - that is going to be identical in terms of quality and lack of bitstream conversion, and be much easier to manage.

Thank you. I tried to look up the bdp-s5600 you mentioned, but didn’t see a match. Is that the correct model number?

Does anyone have a recommendation for a unit (receiver, etc.) that has an hdmi input and is intended to properly process DSD audio from a blu-ray/sacd player?

Lastly, after adjusting some settings on my Blu-ray player, it’s now sending DSD over PCM. The SACD being played now shows as 24/176.4 on my DAC, which apparently is equivalent to DSD64. Is this still downsampled or is this a proper result for an SACD? I’m new to this and don’t know.

 

[dadregga]

Thank you. I tried to look up the bdp-s5600 you mentioned, but didn’t see a match. Is that the correct model number?

Does anyone have a recommendation for a unit (receiver, etc.) that has an hdmi input and is intended to properly process DSD audio from a blu-ray/sacd player?

Lastly, after adjusting some settings on my Blu-ray player, it’s now sending DSD over PCM. The SACD being played now shows as 24/176.4 on my DAC, which apparently is equivalent to DSD64. Is this still downsampled or is this a proper result for an SACD? I’m new to this and don’t know.

Sorry, I transposed the model number.

Your BDP-S6500 can be used to rip SACD DSD to raw files and you can play them back directly to your DAC from your computer over USB, skipping HDMI entirely. You will have much better luck trying that pathway and it will be exactly as good as trying to stream DSD over HDMI via IIS, which is expensive, tricky, obscure, and not very compatible with modern equipment.


You do you, however, this is just a recommendation since you already have all the equipment you need to do what I'm describing.

 

[Chrispy]

DSD over HDMI is effectively a violation of the HDMI spec and you're going to struggle to find something that works well.

I use dsd over hdmi all the time. I'm using an avr with the ability to handle dsd. The RME unit can handle dsd or not?

 

[linger63]

Thanks, but that review was inconclusive. DSD over HDMI (what I need) was not tested.

Well I use one to send DSD (DoP) between my Oppo 205 and a Gustard X26Pro DAC with no issue.

Many others on other AV sites report no issues either....see below....Post #3 is me.

HDMI De-embedder; which equipment have you tried?

If you use an HDMI de-embedder to get digital audio signal to an external DAC...what are you using? Or if you tried it but no longer do, please share...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

As your RME accepts DoP via SPDIF input you are good to go.

 

[Strumbringer]

I use dsd over hdmi all the time. I'm using an avr with the ability to handle dsd. The RME unit can handle dsd or not?

Yes, the RME does handle DSD. I have a couple of DSD test files that I play off my laptop via USB and the DAC says “DSD” when they’re playing. However, when I’m going from an SACD, DSD is packaged as DSD over PCM and I see 24/176.4 and no “DSD” indicator on the DAC. I’m reading that 24/176.4 is equivalent however to DSD64 (what the SACD is rated), so perhaps I’m getting the full resolution of the SACD?

Well I use one to send DSD (DoP) between my Oppo 205 and a Gustard X26Pro DAC with no issue.

Many others on other AV sites report no issues either....see below....Post #3 is me.

HDMI De-embedder; which equipment have you tried?

If you use an HDMI de-embedder to get digital audio signal to an external DAC...what are you using? Or if you tried it but no longer do, please share...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

As your RME accepts DoP via SPDIF input you are good to go.

I am absolutely going to look into this. Thanks!

Sorry, I transposed the model number.

Your BDP-S6500 can be used to rip SACD DSD to raw files and you can play them back directly to your DAC from your computer over USB, skipping HDMI entirely. You will have much better luck trying that pathway and it will be exactly as good as trying to stream DSD over HDMI via IIS, which is expensive, tricky, obscure, and not very compatible with modern equipment.


You do you, however, this is just a recommendation since you already have all the equipment you need to do what I'm describing.

Sounds good. I’ll research this suggestion!

 

[DVDdoug]

Is this still downsampled or is this a proper result for an SACD? I’m new to this and don’t know.

I'm not sure if "downsampling" is the right process/description.
You can't make a "bit perfect" conversion and if you convert it back to DSD you'll get different bit patterns. But it should be WAY BETTER than human hearing.

Of course, the analog isn't bit perfect either, since there are no bits, bytes, or samples in the analog output!

 

[dadregga]

I use dsd over hdmi all the time. I'm using an avr with the ability to handle dsd. The RME unit can handle dsd or not?

Your AVR is likely much older than the RME - DSD over HDMI is not part of the HDMI spec and not supported by modern devices.

 

[Chrispy]

Yes, the RME does handle DSD. I have a couple of DSD test files that I play off my laptop via USB and the DAC says “DSD” when they’re playing. However, when I’m going from an SACD, DSD is packaged as DSD over PCM and I see 24/176.4 and no “DSD” indicator on the DAC. I’m reading that 24/176.4 is equivalent however to DSD64 (what the SACD is rated), so perhaps I’m getting the full resolution of the SACD?


I am absolutely going to look into this. Thanks!


Sounds good. I’ll research this suggestion!

Interesting. What are your settings in the Sony player? I have S5100 and S6700 and no particular issues....

Your AVR is likely much older than the RME - DSD over HDMI is not part of the HDMI spec and not supported by modern devices.

Several avrs I have can handle dsd, the newest is a Denon 4700....and seems the more current 4800 has same capabilities.

 

[wwenze]

Hello All,

I've been using the search function and reading as much as I can find on the topic and was hoping to ask for recommendations. I have a Sony Blu-Ray player BDP-S6500, which the web tells me, will play SACD and output DSD via its HDMI out (it only has HDMI and coax outputs, nothing else).

My hope is to have it output DSD to my RME ADI-2 DAC. I'm currently using a Cable Matters model 103090 audio extractor and it's not doing the job. I've learned that using optical will down-sample and I'm getting 24/44.1. I've also tried my friends Oppo 103 and get the same results using HDMI2. If I use the Oppo's analog outs to my headphone amp, I'm good.

Any recommendations for an audio extractor that can work with the Sony BDP-S6500 into my RME ADI2 DAC?

Have you tried this?

 

[Strumbringer]

Interesting. What are your settings in the Sony player? I have S5100 and S6700 and no particular issues....

In settings, I specified DSD audio as PCM rather than auto and it outputs 24/176.4 according to my DAC. I think this correct/equivalent to DSD64?

 

[Strumbringer]

Have you tried this?

View attachment 517797

Yes. I’ll give it another go and see if it makes a difference.

 

[Chrispy]

In settings, I specified DSD audio as PCM rather than auto and it outputs 24/176.4 according to my DAC. I think this correct/equivalent to DSD64?

So you want your player to handle conversion rather than the RME?

ps as to "correct" meh, equivalent audibly sure.

 

[Chester]

In settings, I specified DSD audio as PCM rather than auto and it outputs 24/176.4 according to my DAC. I think this correct/equivalent to DSD64?

Your device is converting DSD into 176 PCM and sending it to your DAC. It’s not the same as the raw DSD but as someone else has already said, it should sound the same. Just so you’re clear.

 

[Strumbringer]

So you want your player to handle conversion rather than the RME?

ps as to "correct" meh, equivalent audibly sure.

Well, the RME will see 24/44.1 when I have the player setting of Digital Audio Output on "Auto." If that setting is "PCM", I'll see 24/176.4 on the RME. There's another setting in the player for DSD output mode, but it's simply Auto or Off. If the RME were able to receive the raw DSD from the player, that would be great, but from what I'm reading on-line, the Sony Blu-Ray player will only output raw DSD if there's a compatible (i.e. Sony approved) SACD/DSD-reading unit on the receiving end of the HDMI cable.

So I think there are a couple of scenarios: 1) Simply enjoy my current set up, with the 24/176.4 output. 2) Purchase an older used Sony, Denon, etc. receiver off Craigslist (~$100) that has HDMI inputs and DSD capabilities. 3) Obtain an old/used Blu-Ray player that has analog outputs (e.g. Oppo BDP93, 103, 105, etc.).

I greatly appreciate everyone's input, thus far.

Your device is converting DSD into 176 PCM and sending it to your DAC. It’s not the same as the raw DSD but as someone else has already said, it should sound the same. Just so you’re clear.

Thank you- yes, I've been reading this on-line as well.

"The resulting DoP stream can be transmitted through existing 24/192-capable USB, AES, Dual AES or SPDIF interfaces to a DoP-compatible DAC, which reassembles the original stereo DSD data stream COMPLETELY UNCHANGED."

https://dcsaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360015074419-What-is-DoP-DSD-over-PCM

Also, I use the Collibri music player and their site provides similar reassurance:

DSD – Colibri | Mac Lossless Audio Player

colibri-lossless.com

 

[Strumbringer]

Have you tried this?

View attachment 517797

Reporting back on the three-way switch on the extractor: The middle setting (5ch) results in 24/176.4 and the other two result in 24/44.1.