Audio devices that are safe to use with a pacemaker

[Roland68]

A static magnetic field? That sounds like a design flaw.

This is due to the built-in magnetic switches—designed as reed contacts—that facilitate external, contactless control by physicians.
Many of these devices can also be read out wirelessly, or transmit warnings to the doctor via this method, though they cannot be controlled that way.

The reason for this is quite clear: programming the device requires direct contact with the skin, right over the implant.
Just imagine a hacker gaining access to millions of these devices worldwide, from anywhere.
While reed contacts may be an outdated technology, they are extremely secure against external attacks.

Incidentally, reed relays are also used in high-end volume control systems.

 

[Reddoc]

A static magnetic field? That sounds like a design flaw.

Not really, I work with pacemakers most days and the use of a static magnetic field (by EXPERTS ONLY!) is important in deactivating them when appropriate, or turning off certain functions (like internal shocks!) when appropriate. To borrow from the IT crowd: it's not a bug, it's a feature.
This is not advice or safety info for the OP! Follow my first post in this thread for what I really think you should do
PS the medicolegal environment (esp in the USA) stops me telling more stories, giving advice or going into detail about these devices, but I have seen some pretty "interesting" things!

 

[antcollinet]

This is due to the built-in magnetic switches—designed as reed contacts—that facilitate external, contactless control by physicians.
Many of these devices can also be read out wirelessly, or transmit warnings to the doctor via this method, though they cannot be controlled that way.

The reason for this is quite clear: programming the device requires direct contact with the skin, right over the implant.
Just imagine a hacker gaining access to millions of these devices worldwide, from anywhere.
While reed contacts may be an outdated technology, they are extremely secure against external attacks.

Incidentally, reed relays are also used in high-end volume control systems.

Not really, I work with pacemakers most days and the use of a static magnetic field (by EXPERTS ONLY!) is important in deactivating them when appropriate, or turning off certain functions (like internal shocks!) when appropriate. To borrow from the IT crowd: it's not a bug, it's a feature.
This is not advice or safety info for the OP! Follow my first post in this thread for what I really think you should do
PS the medicolegal environment (esp in the USA) stops me telling more stories, giving advice or going into detail about these devices, but I have seen some pretty "interesting" things!

Fair enough. No magnetic toys then. I guess MRI is also off the cards.

 

[Keith_W]

PS the medicolegal environment (esp in the USA) stops me telling more stories, giving advice or going into detail about these devices, but I have seen some pretty "interesting" things!

Hahaha yes, I have a lot of stories too

When I was younger, I did a stint as cardiology registrar. One day when I was on-call, I got a phone call from an anaesthetist. Apparently there was a patient under anaesthesia in surgery who had an implantable defibrillator. The surgeons found out when they used diathermy (an electric current), and the ICD delivered a zap. They had failed to pick up the device before the operation, and I was required to go there NOW to turn the ICD off.

I rang the pacemaker tech who was himself busy with another case. And I was busy in clinic. He came in 30 minutes, and I apologised to my patients who were waiting for me in clinic. Together we changed and walked into the operating theatre. Everyone was waiting for us, and the surgeon gave me a cold glare when I walked in. "Took you long enough". I had to reach under the sterile drapes to put the programming puck on top of the pacemaker. The surgeon yelled at me "THAT'S STERILE!". By this time I was fed up of his attitude and I told him that I can either turn that ICD off, or he can cancel the case, stitch the patient back up, and rebook everything? He elected to let me turn the ICD off. It took less than a minute and we were out of there.

 

[Reddoc]

requires direct contact with the skin

Not with the newer devices- just sit nearby! Bluetooth connection lets you interrogate and program the device from the comfort of your desk

 

[LTig]

A static magnetic field? That sounds like a design flaw.

Not if the field is very strong, like in MRI systems or close to NMR magnets. Moving the body into the field and inside it induces voltages within the body, e.g. the brain.

Once I was lying under a 400 MHz (9.4 T) vertical bore non shielded NMR magnet, where the field outside is strongest. Shaking my head resulted in showing stars in my vision. Nothing dangerous for a healthy person, but people with pacemakers, defibrillators or other inplants are not allowed close to those magnets.

 

[ejr]

Just curious as to how to determine which side of my body the pacemaker was implanted in. It is always the same side as the battery, or can they be on opposite sides.

 

[Roland68]

Just curious as to how to determine which side of my body the pacemaker was implanted in. It is always the same side as the battery, or can they be on opposite sides.

The batteries are usually integrated into the pacemaker. When the batteries run out, the entire unit is replaced.
Didn't your doctor explain exactly where they implanted it?
All of that is actually part of the consultation where the procedure is explained.

 

[hex168]

Fair enough. No magnetic toys then. I guess MRI is also off the cards.

Modern pacemakers (at least some current Medtronic models are an example) are MRI-safe. I can't remember if that requires switching them into a specific mode, or if that is only for some of them.

 

[Redacted]

Mine works well to Rammstein at 100dB.
Maybe Amir should test the various models?

 

[Reddoc]

Just curious as to how to determine which side of my body the pacemaker was implanted in. It is always the same side as the battery, or can they be on opposite sides.

What country are you in, ejr?
I am super-surprised at your question as 1) the incision should be completely obvious to you; 2) it would be very unusual for the device to not be palpable (ie able to be felt by touch) so you should know where it is and 3) all PPM recipients in my country will receive a WHOLE lot of literature about their pacemaker, including one that describes exactly which pacemaker it is
But perhaps you live in a country with a very different system.
All the best.
Talk to your doctor.

 

[ejr]

What country are you in, ejr?
I am super-surprised at your question as 1) the incision should be completely obvious to you; 2) it would be very unusual for the device to not be palpable (ie able to be felt by touch) so you should know where it is and 3) all PPM recipients in my country will receive a WHOLE lot of literature about their pacemaker, including one that describes exactly which pacemaker it is
But perhaps you live in a country with a very different system.
All the best.
Talk to your doctor.

USA

I can see the buldge under my collar bone, where I assume the battery is. The bandage is still on. I am allowed to shower now but have been warned not to rip off the bandage. I was finally able to reach the surgeon's office and schedule a follow up, but it's going to be more than a week. I can certainly ask him then, but I was just curious.

 

[ejr]

USA

I can see the buldge under my collar bone, where I assume the battery is. The bandage is still on. I am allowed to shower now but have been warned not to rip off the bandage. I was finally able to reach the surgeon's office and schedule a follow up, but it's going to be more than a week. I can certainly ask him then, but I was just curious.

USA

I can see the buldge under my collar bone, where I assume the battery is. The bandage is still on. I am allowed to shower now but have been warned not to rip off the bandage. I was finally able to reach the surgeon's office and schedule a follow up, but it's going to be more than a week. I can certainly ask him then, but I was just curious.

For some reason, this posted twice. For some reason this posted twice.

 

[Keith_W]

Just curious as to how to determine which side of my body the pacemaker was implanted in. It is always the same side as the battery, or can they be on opposite sides.

The pacemaker and battery are usually an integrated unit. You should be able to feel the pacemaker on your chest.

 

[mlsstl]

I'm on my third Medtronic pacemaker since 2012 -- the batteries ran down on the first two. While I'm careful not to put other electronic devices immediately over or next to where its implanted in my chest, I've never had an issue using my cell phone, Bluetooth headphones or other BT devices. You also want to keep other items with magnets away from the pacemaker. Several years ago I leaned over my Ohm speaker to reach something. Ohms have their magnet at the top of the speaker. The distance between my pacemaker and the large magnet was 4 or 5 inches. This set off the low battery alarm which runs about 15 or so seconds, It caused no other problems and did not change any settings. The battery life was not actually affected.

The thing to remember is that electronic/magnetic strength runs on the inverse square rule, for example going from 1" away to 2" away cuts the signal strength down to 25% of the closer distance value. Going 2" to 4" cuts the strength down to 6% of the 1" value. As such, other than not putting things over or next to my device, I don't spend any time worrying about the issue. Medtronic recommends you keep any device with a magnet (cell phone, headphones, etc.) at least 15 cm (6") away from the device. That means don't carry your phone in a shirt or coat pocket next to the device, and don't drape headphones aound your neck, etc.

That said, I'd suggest you check with the maker of your device to see if they have different recommendations.

 

[Reddoc]

magnetic strength runs on the inverse square rule

Only if at a great enough distance to treat one end of the magnet as a point source or if you've found a magnetic monopole!
Especially, physically large sources (like a subwoofer magnet within a few inches) or a current-carrying wire do NOT obey this rule.

 

[mlsstl]

Only if at a great enough distance to treat one end of the magnet as a point source or if you've found a magnetic monopole!
Especially, physically large sources (like a subwoofer magnet within a few inches) or a current-carrying wire do NOT obey this rule.

You may be technically correct, but from a practical standpoint I find the rule works quite well in daily situations. I've moved my speakers several times over 14 years I've had a pacemaker. I also have a subwoofer which had to be placed. When I move those the speaker magnet is around a foot or more from my pacemaker. It was only when I was within inches that one time that it affected my pacemaker. (Interesting encounter -- the low battery alarm makes a sound like a European police siren for about 15 seconds or so. It's not loud but does get your attention and that of anyone close by.)

 

[ejr]

Interesting. My pacemaker isn't making any sounds. But when I start getting dizzy and short of breath and have to lie down, I can feel it kicking in to pick up my heart rate. My chest gets warm on the upper left side, where I think the battery must have been implanted. It's a long narrow bump, but I can't really get a look at it because the bandage hasn't fallen off yet. It also gets warm in the center of my chest. My original follow up with the surgeon was canceled, so it's going to be more than a week before I can ask him questions (and some of them, to be fair, are just out of curiosity).

 

[mlsstl]

Interesting. My pacemaker isn't making any sounds. But when I start getting dizzy and short of breath and have to lie down, I can feel it kicking in to pick up my heart rate. My chest gets warm on the upper left side, where I think the battery must have been implanted. It's a long narrow bump, but I can't really get a look at it because the bandage hasn't fallen off yet. It also gets warm in the center of my chest. My original follow up with the surgeon was canceled, so it's going to be more than a week before I can ask him questions (and some of them, to be fair, are just out of curiosity).

With your pacemaker just having been implanted you shouldn't hear any sounds from it. You should be some years off from a low-battery situation. I've only heard the alarm a few times -- when testing in the doc's office, the one time I made the mistake with my speaker, and the last time when the low battery alert went off because the second device only had a couple of months left, hence my third surgery.

How long a battery lasts depends on what they are asking the pacemaker to do. Some only monitor the heart and step in occasionally. If you need defibrillation, that drains the battery more quickly, but some pacemakers don't provide that feature. In my case, the pacemaker is there for cardiac resyncronization. I got about 6 years from my first implant and 7 years from my second. I'm only 1 year into the third one but they are thinking it'll run about 10 years total. (They keep improving things.)

Of course, this is a subject you need to discuss with your doctor for your condition.

 

[Reddoc]

You may be technically correct, but from a practical standpoint I find the rule works quite well in daily situations. I've moved my speakers several times over 14 years I've had a pacemaker. I also have a subwoofer which had to be placed. When I move those the speaker magnet is around a foot or more from my pacemaker. It was only when I was within inches that one time that it affected my pacemaker. (Interesting encounter -- the low battery alarm makes a sound like a European police siren for about 15 seconds or so. It's not loud but does get your attention and that of anyone close by.)

we don't disagree in any way at all, misstl
I was being technical, wasn't meaning to disregard your lived experience which is totally in-line with what I stated.
en passant: 13 years of life with a CRT PPM is REALLY good- may you enjoy many more!