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Audio devices that are safe to use with a pacemaker

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ejr

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So, I just got out of the hospital with a pacemaker and I am being told most of the electronic devices are not safe to use with it.

I am wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and how you handled it. Specifically, if any of my existing gear can be used safely -- or made to work safely -- with a pacemaker.

For example, it apparently hates bluetooth. I have a number of audio devices that support bluetooth (although I never use the bluetooth features anymore). Does anyone know of a way to turn it off on an SMSL D400? Or a Loxjie D60?

Speakers are another issue. I have three pairs of Genelec powered speakers. One is a 3.1 system with a big subwoofer, where all speakers are plugged into a power strip. I turn them on with the button on the power strip. But the subwoofer is so large, that it's close to my chest when I turn them. I've seen a few power strips that you can start with a remote, which seems like it might be a better option, but it might not work if the remote communicates by bluetooth or RF.

I can't use my Wacom graphis tablet any more. Or tablet computers. (The impression I get from talking to the company that makes the pacemaker is that iPads are the worst.) Headphones, too (unless you can keep the wire far from your chest).

I'd be grateful to hear from anyone who has had to deal with such problems and how you dealt with them.

Thanks.
 
Healthcare providers have a duty of care to ensure you're safe in your recovery.
They might not volunteer all the information you seek at the point of discharge, but if you ask for it from them they should surely provide you with.
ASR to my knowledge is not a specialist healthcare resource. Instead seek advice from the providers you entrusted to your care.
 
Agree with @Reddoc - I think you should get the technical specs on what kind of RF interference exactly is considered dangerous.

For example, Wifi and Bluetooth operate on similar spectrum. Is Wifi dangerous? If so, you'd better go out with a lead vest on, it's everywhere and generally operates at higher power than Bluetooth.

As for speakers, I don't think they will generate much EMI if they're not actually playing sound. There's a big magnet in there, but the voice coil isn't creating a magnetic field until you pump some voltage into it. As far as I know the capacitors shouldn't be doing anything weird. So that doesn't sound like a worry to me. (note: Not an engineer!)

If you are worried though, you can get wifi plugs that switch on and off... which should alleviate this concern... if Wifi is safe. (?)

I think it is likely that they've given you the most cautious instructions possible, but I don't think I've ever heard of anyone having a problem due to BT interference with their pacemaker. (perhaps meaningless, but Claude says there are no documented instances of BT interference. Heart Association and FDA agree - low risk.) The manufacturer and the doctors can't guarantee that other devices won't interfere unless they test all of them exhaustively. That's obviously impossible with thousands of BT devices out there. So the safe bet is to advise you to steer clear. That may or may not correspond to a real danger. Liability-wise, they'd rather you sell all your devices for no reason, than have one lawsuit where some malfunctioning iPad kills someone.

Think about it like this: Do they take your devices away when you go to the cardiology ward in a hospital, or nursing homes, or really anywhere? If BT is actually dangerous, then why not? You could kill somebody with your JBL Go, right? (I think no, actually.)

Apparently the actual magnets in headphones (and presumably speakers) are more of a threat if they get close to your chest.

Anyway I think you are right to be cautious, but agree that you should investigate these warnings critically and in as much detail as possible. The more you understand any actual risks, the safer you will be and maybe the less gear you'll have to sell.


Anyway... to answer your actual question and not just the one I wanted to answer:

I don't think you can easily fully disable Bluetooth on a device that includes it. Bluetooth devices are always broadcasting at low power so they can find each other and establish a connection.

For example my Topping DX5 does not have an antenna connected and it's set to USB input, but it still shows up as a nearby device when I search on my phone.

If you need to avoid BT entirely, then you should look for devices that don't list it as a feature. Disabling the radio entirely would entail physical removal or custom firmware that powers off the radio completely, and that would be hard to get.
 
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Almost anything will be listed as dangerous. It's about building a case to not pay out in the event of a law suit.

You stroked a cat? Yeah, static then....
 
ejr said:
and I am being told most of the electronic devices are not safe to use with it.
Click to expand...

Who is telling you that - sounds like nonsense to me. If a pacemaker was not safe to use with common electronic devices around then:

a) There would be people with pacemakers keeling over all the time.
b) There would be a helluva lot of law suits about it.

Pacemakers have to be able to operate safely with all the stuff people are going to be close to every day - even if they don't have them in their own homes. For example - wifi em signals are orders of manitude higher than anything you will get from audio gear (they are designed to radiate). Same with mobile phones.

Can you imagine being able to go anywhere without being hit by wifi signals? Or mobile phone signals? And mobile phone masts are many more orders of magnitude more powerful than those - are you supposed to find out where all those are in your region and stay away from them?


Here is some more sane info - including specifics on phones and tablets. Mainly - "don't put your device right next to your pacemaker"
www.bhf.org.uk

Pacemakers

A pacemaker is a small device that can treat some abnormal heart rhythms (arrhythmias). Find out how it works, what it looks like and how it's fitted.
www.bhf.org.uk www.bhf.org.uk
 
Last edited:
ejr said:
So, I just got out of the hospital with a pacemaker and I am being told most of the electronic devices are not safe to use with it.

I am wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and how you handled it. Specifically, if any of my existing gear can be used safely -- or made to work safely -- with a pacemaker.

For example, it apparently hates bluetooth. I have a number of audio devices that support bluetooth (although I never use the bluetooth features anymore). Does anyone know of a way to turn it off on an SMSL D400? Or a Loxjie D60?

Speakers are another issue. I have three pairs of Genelec powered speakers. One is a 3.1 system with a big subwoofer, where all speakers are plugged into a power strip. I turn them on with the button on the power strip. But the subwoofer is so large, that it's close to my chest when I turn them. I've seen a few power strips that you can start with a remote, which seems like it might be a better option, but it might not work if the remote communicates by bluetooth or RF.

I can't use my Wacom graphis tablet any more. Or tablet computers. (The impression I get from talking to the company that makes the pacemaker is that iPads are the worst.) Headphones, too (unless you can keep the wire far from your chest).

I'd be grateful to hear from anyone who has had to deal with such problems and how you dealt with them.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Modern pacemakers are very well shielded and highly resistant to interference.
However, you should verify whether you have a pacemaker or an implantable defibrillator, as the latter are significantly more sensitive.

In general, you do not need to worry about Bluetooth or Wi-Fi; you simply need to maintain a physical distance of 15–30 cm—for example, keep your mobile phone in your right trouser pocket rather than your left breast pocket, and don't sleep on top of the router.
You really need to keep your distance from strong magnetic fields or magnets (such as loudspeakers, MagSafe mounts, etc.), sources of strong electromagnetic interference and induction (e.g., powerful switching power supplies, induction cooktops, microwave ovens, welding equipment, etc.), and high-frequency applications.

A study conducted by Thoralf Niendorf’s MDC research group in collaboration with researchers from Charité Berlin has shown that, in reality, most concerns are completely unfounded.

After a heart attack in 2004, my father had a defibrillator implanted, but he didn't give a damn about it.
For over 15 years, he continued welding with a powerful electric welder and working with heavy-duty power tools and machinery without any issues.
He simply turned the left side of his body—where the defibrillator was implanted—slightly away from the equipment.
 
ejr said:
So, I just got out of the hospital with a pacemaker and I am being told most of the electronic devices are not safe to use with it.

I am wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and how you handled it. Specifically, if any of my existing gear can be used safely -- or made to work safely -- with a pacemaker.

For example, it apparently hates bluetooth. I have a number of audio devices that support bluetooth (although I never use the bluetooth features anymore). Does anyone know of a way to turn it off on an SMSL D400? Or a Loxjie D60?

Speakers are another issue. I have three pairs of Genelec powered speakers. One is a 3.1 system with a big subwoofer, where all speakers are plugged into a power strip. I turn them on with the button on the power strip. But the subwoofer is so large, that it's close to my chest when I turn them. I've seen a few power strips that you can start with a remote, which seems like it might be a better option, but it might not work if the remote communicates by bluetooth or RF.

I can't use my Wacom graphis tablet any more. Or tablet computers. (The impression I get from talking to the company that makes the pacemaker is that iPads are the worst.) Headphones, too (unless you can keep the wire far from your chest).

I'd be grateful to hear from anyone who has had to deal with such problems and how you dealt with them.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Perhaps two more points.

My father had a heart attack at 50, and the specialists told him back then that he should start getting his affairs in order.
He adopted a healthier diet and stayed very active—though he kept smoking; he walked the dog for two or three hours every day, was out and about a lot, drove daily, and went on 1,000-kilometer road trips for vacations with my mother twice a year.
He lived another 33 years after that and died of something completely different (unfortunately).

So, the saying "use it or lose it" holds true; stay active and don't pay too much attention to what the doctors say on this subject. Fear and a lack of motivation have a huge impact on our mental and physical health, so keep doing the things you enjoy. If my father hadn't been so stubborn about this, he wouldn't have lived another five years.

As for the idea about the graphics tablet and the iPad—I think that’s absolute nonsense. In terms of technology and emissions, an iPad is essentially the same as an iPhone (or a comparable device). The same rule applies here: just keep a bit of distance because of the magnet, though 15–30 cm should be sufficient.
Wacom tablets and other graphics tablets generate only minimal induction—certainly not enough to reach out 30 cm.
People with pacemakers are advised to keep a distance of at least 30 cm from induction cooktops while cooking.
Do you see the disparity here? An induction cooktop with 1,500–3,000 watts per burner isn't a problem at a distance of 30 cm, yet a graphics tablet with just a few milliwatts of power is supposed to pose a danger?
Your TV likely emits more energy from three meters away than your Wacom tablet does.
I think someone fed you a lot of nonsense.

You’ve surely walked past plenty of people using mobile phones—with Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and cellular data turned on and headphones in use—and what happened? Nothing.
The concerns about headphones and headphone cables are also nonsense. Just let the cable hang down on your right side and don't place the headphones directly on your pacemaker.
With 4-pin XLR or Pentacon connectors, you could even use a shielded headphone cable.
 
A definitive answer would require hiring a biomedical electronics engineer + a 2nd sample pacemaker + RF lab testing.
 
Philbo King said:
A definitive answer would require hiring a biomedical electronics engineer + a 2nd sample pacemaker + RF lab testing.
Click to expand...
Are you saying the study conducted on 164 patients by researchers at Berlin’s Charité—one of the world’s leading cardiac research centers—isn't enough?
They demonstrated that for both implanted pacemakers and defibrillators, a direct distance of 17 mm from the iPhone’s ring magnet is sufficient. Only in very thin individuals was this distance breached when the iPhone was placed directly against the body with the magnet side facing inward.
A direct magnetic field exposure of more than 1 millitesla is required for any interference to occur.

@ejr A graphics tablet generates a surface magnetic field of 0.002 millitesla—500 times lower than the level required to affect the test subjects' pacemakers.
At 16A, power cables generate a maximum of 0.01 millitesla, which is also far below the threshold for potential interference.
Wi-Fi and Bluetooth devices also operate well below 0.005 millitesla.
For iPads, too, a safety distance of 15–20 cm from the implant is sufficient. The same applies to powerful headphones.

Magnetic fields diminish according to the inverse-square law (or faster). This means that even a magnetic field of 25 millitesla becomes harmless at a distance of 30 cm or less.
 
Reddoc said:
I think you should get info in writing from your pacemaker company and the doctor who inserted it regarding what devices and activities are safe for you.
Click to expand...
I wish I could. They have one big pdf of all the devices tested and just refer me to that. But there are a lot of gaps. And they aren't willing to test anything. They tell me to ask my doctor (who I can't even reach to reschedule the follow up appointment that his staff canceled). Wacom says their tablets are safe to use at arm's length (which is basically the way that I'd normally use it.) Not much more info on the rest of my concerns.

I'm thinking of replacing my landline phone with one that doesn't have the RF extension phones, just to get that base model with the big transmitter in it off my desk. But there aren't many choices from name brands that also have caller ID and voicemail (neither of which I want to give up, if I don't have to).

Headphones is another issue. The pacemaker manufacturer is saying not to use my wired headphones -- or, if I do, not to let the wire go across my chest. Tough because I think the pacemaker is on the left side of my chest and the chord goes out the left ear (but I can reverse the phase with my DAC and wear them backwards from now on). Is it worth switching to wireless, or would that be even worse with a pacemaker (basically wearing two big electromagnets on my ears)?

Thanks.
 
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I bet you your pacemaker already contains a Bluetooth radio. Telling you that you can’t use any Bluetooth stuff is just silly.

Just keep the advised 15cm distance and you’re fine. Even that distance will have a huge safety margin. That’s not just electronics, but also magnets, which actually might the bigger risk here. But the inverse square law is real!

The wire thing is truly bizar, though…
 
Out of interest - what do magnets do to a pacemaker?
 
It is all about proximity, frequency bands and modulation.
immunity of pacemakers is not an easy task with high signal levels in very close proximity because of the wires coming out of the (shielded) device and telemetry.

Power levels go down quickly with a doubling of distance so a DAC with a BT receiver is not going to be a problem unless you are leaning directly on it .
Just insure you don't have any RF devices in very close proximity to the pacemaker (directly against it)..
It would be really weird if cell phones would be dangerous for those devices.
Medical devices undergo serious EMC testing for them to get certified, when those levels are exceeded (very close proximity or high power) then all kinds of failures can occur.
See below article.


Digital Music Players, Headphones, and Neodymium Magnets​

Digital music players may result in isolated telemetry EMI without direct impact on CIED function.
Portable headphones contain strong magnets that may interfere with CIED function at close range.
Similar neodymium magnets are used in the jewelry and clothing industry and can lead to magnetic field effects.

Security Systems and Equipment​

Walk-through metal detector security systems use either continuous-wave (5–10 kHz) or pulsed-wave (200–400 Hz) modes. In contrast, handheld detectors operate in higher-frequency continuous-wave mode (80–130 KHz) with lower magnetic field strength and lower likelihood for EMI.
The risk of EMI appears to be very low in the setting of walk-through and handheld metal detectors.
Nevertheless, CIED recipients should alert security personnel regarding the implanted device as recommended by the Transportation Security Administration. Electronic article surveillance devices utilizing magnetic, acoustomagnetic, radiofrequency, or microwave transmissions are used to prevent theft in stores and libraries. Instances of EMI with tracking and pacing inhibition attributable to ventricular oversensing, asynchronous pacing, current induction with myocardial capture/extrasystoles, and inappropriate shocks have been reported with close exposure to magnetic, radiofrequency, and acoustomagnetic surveillance systems.
CIED recipients should not linger near surveillance devices, thus avoiding adequate EMI duration for activation of tachyarrhythmia therapies by the CIED. Tasers are weapons that deliver short pulses of current with a peak voltage of 1000 to 1500 V. Instances of inappropriate sensing resulting in pacing inhibition, noise reversion, and tachycardia detection, in addition to ventricular capture secondary to direct delivery of the Taser pulse to the myocardium, have been reported.

Cellular Phones​

Instances of EMI with CIEDs resulting in oversensing, tracking, pacing inhibition, and asynchronous pacing were readily observed with early cellular phones placed directly on the device.
Studies of modern cellular phones and CIEDs with routine use of dedicated feedthrough filters have noted minimal or no EMI.
In the setting of ICDs, only transient telemtery loss, without clinically significant EMI, has been reported.
Current recommendations indicate holding cellular phones to the ear contralateral to the CIEDs, avoiding close contact between the CIEDs and the phone, and avoiding the use of cellular phones during programming of CIEDs.

Other Routine or Workplace Sources​

Rare reports of malfunction of CIEDs attributable to EMI from other sources including slot machines, washing machines, power drills, and alternative medicine devices exist in the literature. In general, recipients should be advised to avoid close contact of electric equipment with a CIED generator.
Potential industrial sources of EMI include welding equipment, electric motors, and degaussing coils.
High electromagnetic radiation levels exist in aircraft cockpits, but, on the basis of in vitro studies, they appear unlikely to cause significant EMI with CIEDs.
Similarly, high-voltage power lines are unlikely to result in EMI with routine exposure and bipolar sensing configuration.
If a CIED recipient is in an area with industrial equipment, assessment of the threshold source distance for EMI and follow-up device interrogations should be arranged. Additionally, the employer should be notified regarding CIEDs and the importance of environmental testing. This type of assessment can be performed by a trained EMI testing consultant at the employer’s request. The CIED manufacturer can provide a list of consultants.

carsradiation.org

Magnetic Field Standards for Pacemakers & Active Implants

Understand how pacemaker and implant EMC standards translate ICNIRP magnetic field limits into ISO 14117 immunity tests and China C-GCAP health ratings.
carsradiation.org carsradiation.org
 
Last edited:
ejr said:
So, I just got out of the hospital with a pacemaker and I am being told most of the electronic devices are not safe to use with it.

I am wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and how you handled it. Specifically, if any of my existing gear can be used safely -- or made to work safely -- with a pacemaker.

For example, it apparently hates bluetooth. I have a number of audio devices that support bluetooth (although I never use the bluetooth features anymore). Does anyone know of a way to turn it off on an SMSL D400? Or a Loxjie D60?

Speakers are another issue. I have three pairs of Genelec powered speakers. One is a 3.1 system with a big subwoofer, where all speakers are plugged into a power strip. I turn them on with the button on the power strip. But the subwoofer is so large, that it's close to my chest when I turn them. I've seen a few power strips that you can start with a remote, which seems like it might be a better option, but it might not work if the remote communicates by bluetooth or RF.

I can't use my Wacom graphis tablet any more. Or tablet computers. (The impression I get from talking to the company that makes the pacemaker is that iPads are the worst.) Headphones, too (unless you can keep the wire far from your chest).

I'd be grateful to hear from anyone who has had to deal with such problems and how you dealt with them.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
The only advice I can offer is... never, ever, take potentially critical medical advice from unknown people on the internet!
 
ejr said:
I wish I could. They have one big pdf of all the devices tested and just refer me to that. But there are a lot of gaps. And they aren't willing to test anything. They tell me to ask my doctor (whom I can't even reach to reschedule the follow up appointment that his staff canceled). Wacom says their tablets are safe to use at arm's length (which is basically the way that I'd normally use it. Not much more info on the rest of my concerns.

I'm thinking of replacing my landline phone with one that doesn't have the RF extension phones, just to get that base model with the big transmitter in it off my desk. But there aren't many choices from name brands that also have caller ID and voicemail (neither of which I want to give up, if I don't have to).

Headphones is another issue. They pacemaker manufacturer is saying not to use my wired headphones -- or, if I do, not to let the wire go across my chest. Tough because I think the pacemaker is on the left side of my chest and the chord goes out the left ear (but I can reverse the L & R channels with my DAC and wear them backwards from now on). Is it worth switching to wireless, or would that be even worse with a pacemaker (basically wearing two big electromagnets on my ears)?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Pacemakers are not sensitive to ordinary radio waves, but rather to magnetic fields.
Radio waves strong enough to cause problems simply do not exist in everyday life; sources of such waves are subject to special labeling and safety regulations.
It would be completely pointless for you to make any changes or buy anything based on this concern.

Please read the research report from Berlin’s Charité—one of the world’s leading cardiac research centers. I would trust them more than any individual doctor or manufacturer.

There are plenty of other studies on the subject that all reach the same conclusion: common everyday devices—including power tools, computers, mobile phones/smartphones, tablets, etc.—do not interfere with pacemakers, provided the recommended separation distance of 15–30 cm (air gap) is maintained.
Actual instances of malfunction caused by such factors are so rare that they do not even register in statistics; in terms of numbers, they lag far behind software glitches and hardware failures.

Both the manufacturer and your doctors want to play it safe without putting in any effort themselves, so they simply shift the entire responsibility onto you.
 
antcollinet said:
Out of interest - what do magnets do to a pacemaker?
Click to expand...
If they are strong and close enough, they can cause a reset of the pacemaker/defibrillator, so that it only operates in emergency mode.

Research involving scientists from Berlin's Charité hospital found in real-world trials with patients that the ring magnets built into iPhones and other smartphones should be at least 17 mm apart.

Common radio waves in our environment have had no effect on these devices for over 20 years.
 
Roland68 said:
If they are strong and close enough, they can cause a reset of the pacemaker/defibrillator, so that it only operates in emergency mode.

Research involving scientists from Berlin's Charité hospital found in real-world trials with patients that the ring magnets built into iPhones and other smartphones should be at least 17 mm apart.

Common radio waves in our environment have had no effect on these devices for over 20 years.
Click to expand...
A static magnetic field? That sounds like a design flaw.
 
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